Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[kotpeter]

Every Civ game had criticism and there is always claims that the previous were better, but NONE had this level of rejection, and we have had Civ games even less polished than Civ VII before, so i dont understand how people can blame polish on this.

Beyond earth was rejected more than Civ 7.

Sandbox wasn't the focus of Civ 7 on release, but now one can disable all legacy paths and crises and turn on long ages and enjoy the gameplay free of race and streamlining. And with the continuity setting enabled almost everything carries over to the next age. Snowballing, while harder, is still possible in Civ 7, and conquest is as fun as ever because of revamped warfare. Someone might complain about settlement limit, but in 90% cases it's because people don't know the limit is soft, not hard.

I don't think many people tried messing with settings and instead play the default ruleset, which is designed more towards competitive board game.

 

[zerokarma]

Beyond earth was rejected more than Civ 7.

Beyond Earth was rejected for other reasons, mostly being bland, boring and lacking the soul that made Alpha Centauri so popular.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

I will reply for OP : My eyes, I'm using my eyes to see the obvious

Perhaps don't reply for OP if you have nothing of substance to say.

You know what I find to be the most telling one? The relative paucity of YouTube "Let's Plays" or strategy guides.

Here are people who would love an audience for their content, if there was one. Their very livelihood depends on it. If there were an audience out there interested in Civ 7, there are a group of YouTubers who would happily be making content for that audience.

It would seem that there is not.

People do make content for Civ VII and there is an audience, hence why they receive 10s of thousands of views. Unfortunately you'll see many hate comments in these videos which are very off-putting for YouTubers. The biggest Civ YouTuber has explained this is the reason he hasn't been making content for Civ VII. The amount of hate and negativity surrounding the game is too much and simply unjustified, and is off-putting to content creators & viewers alike.

Every single one available. Be it player numbers, online interest (twitch, youtube), messageboards in general, Firaxis reaction (changes, executive producer talking about slow start, layoffs), etc, etc

Every single metric, while flawed when looked individually, points towards Civ 7 failing

Underperforming or failing? We don't know the total player numbers, but retention looks normal. The game had record pre-orders but the Steam peak is half of Civ VI. Why aren't record pre-orders shown in the Steam peak? Maybe all the different platforms makes a difference. There is still tremendous interest in Civ VII, just half of it is negative. We don't know if layoffs at Firaxis are because of the underperformance of Civ VII. Can you elaborate on "changes"? A slow start doesn't mean failure.

The metric of record pre-orders does not point to failing. The metric of normal player retention does not point to failing. The continued interest in Civ VII 7 months after launch does not point to failing. The monthly updates shows they back Civ VII.

 

[zerokarma]

How many refunds from those record pre-sales?

 

[IntelligentDisk]

How many refunds from those record pre-sales?

Impossible for anyone to know. I just had a look at the Steam reviews as it will say if the reviewer refunded or not. I filtered for negative reviews only and reviews under 2 hours, as you can only refund if you have less than 2 hours played. I then went back to the first week of reviews. 22 out of the most recent 200 reviews (11%) in the first week which are Steam purchasers only, negative and under 2 hours play time show refunds. There are 4,564 total negative reviews under 2 hours. If we use the 11% figure, we could say 502 have refunded. That's 502 out of 24,686 total negative reviews (2%), and 502 out of 46,723 total reviews (1.1%).

 

[itix]

When Civ 7 was on early access on Steam, it peaked at 65k players. When it was opened to all, it peaked only at 85k. On Gamalytic, there was a similar modest increase in owners.

 

[Gorbles]

People need to stop parroting the “1/3” quote like it’s some immutable law of physics.

It's the rule Firaxis themselves choose to follow. If you don't like it, that's absolutely your choice. But they seem to, even if one entry hasn't landed well due to the choices for "new" this time around.

"I don't want the devs to follow it anymore" seems to be what you're saying? That's a position that can be discussed and agreed or disagreed with.

"people need to stop citing the thing the devs have repeatedly said they use as a guiding principle" isn't going to get you very far, imo.

 

[Fripou]

How many refunds from those record pre-sales?

As much as I believe civ7 is a flop, I don't think there could have been that many refunds, it's not a game where you can notice how terrible it has become within only 2 hours

 

[GeneralZift]

Have they even mentioned this 1/3 thing in recent memory?

 

[queenpea]

Have they even mentioned this 1/3 thing in recent memory?

Yes, but what is your issue with it?

 

[IntelligentDisk]

Dev Diary #1: Ages | Civilization VII

Get developer insights and additional details about how Ages are designed in Sid Meier's Civilization VII!

civilization.2k.com

"It might surprise you to know that from our playtests and feedback, the actual experience of playing an Age in Civilization VII feels very familiar to a traditional game of Civ. As many of our fans know, Sid Meier has a rule of thirds when designing a sequel: 33 percent brand new features, 33 percent improving previous features, and 33 percent staying roughly the same. We're continuing that tradition with Civilization VII, as it is critical for us that this game "still feels like Civ." "

 

[GeneralZift]

Yes, but what is your issue with it?

I didn't say I had an issue with it, I was just wondering whether they've seen referenced it in recent memory or whether people are attributing an old design philosophy to modern Firaxis.

 

[queenpea]

I didn't say I had an issue with it, I was just wondering whether they've seen referenced it in recent memory or whether people are attributing an old design philosophy to modern Firaxis.

It was referenced in Civ VII development by the devs.

 

[misesfan]

The metric of record pre-orders does not point to failing. The metric of normal player retention does not point to failing. The continued interest in Civ VII 7 months after launch does not point to failing. The monthly updates shows they back Civ VII.

Yep -- the game is flourishing with a vibrant, satisfied customer base, who will throw all the monies at any DLC that Firaxis produces for the game. Because, you see, people arent really apathetic to this train wreck of a game, they are interested! About 8 to 9 thousand people play it every day throughout the world!

 

[Siptah]

Yep -- the game is flourishing with a vibrant, satisfied customer base, who will throw all the monies at any DLC that Firaxis produces for the game. Because, you see, people arent really apathetic to this train wreck of a game, they are interested! About 8 to 9 thousand people play it every day throughout the world!

~ 100.000. but yeah, the rest of your post isn’t more accurate.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

Yep -- the game is flourishing with a vibrant, satisfied customer base, who will throw all the monies at any DLC that Firaxis produces for the game. Because, you see, people arent really apathetic to this train wreck of a game, they are interested! About 8 to 9 thousand people play it every day throughout the world!

You know you don't need to give extreme and exaggerated statements? A game doesn't need to be either a success or a failure, there is plenty of room between these 2 options.

 

[Maiq]

Dev Diary #1: Ages | Civilization VII

Get developer insights and additional details about how Ages are designed in Sid Meier's Civilization VII!

civilization.2k.com

"It might surprise you to know that from our playtests and feedback, the actual experience of playing an Age in Civilization VII feels very familiar to a traditional game of Civ. As many of our fans know, Sid Meier has a rule of thirds when designing a sequel: 33 percent brand new features, 33 percent improving previous features, and 33 percent staying roughly the same. We're continuing that tradition with Civilization VII, as it is critical for us that this game "still feels like Civ." "

It did surprise me to learn that.

 

[King Flevance]

But what IS success and failure?

Did Alfred Nobel succeed because he invented Dynamite? Or fail because he regretted it?

Is Civ7 a failure based only on public merit? Or a success because it has won the personal hearts of a few?

Success is in the eye of the beholder. A serial killer may succeed in the murder of victims. But he fails when he gets a life sentence playing Civ7.

Since it is a commercial release, it would depend on commercial success. So, initial pre-orders were a success. But reception has been over 50% negative which is obvious failure. (Less than half of the market see it as a good product) It was a short term success, but to remain a success it needs to remain profitable and market reception greatly affects that outcome. Short term profitability and long term profitability require 2 very different strategies. If the release sales produced enough profit to count as success, then it was a success.

The short term success was in big part due to the success of Civ 1-6, not its own doing. So there is a caveat to credit 7 for its initial sales. The long term success will be decided by the market and so far the market is strongly suggesting this game as a long term failure unless something changes. So claiming the game as a failure is merely speculation but is very plausible. There is actually no data that suggests it is going to be a long term success even when comparing it to previous entries in the franchise's releases because has had the lowest overall numbers in every catagory after initial sales. (IIRC, competing with Beyond Earth numbers, a spinoff. Not any of the primary Civ titles.)

It is still possible for it to end in success, but that is a hope more than a likelihood based on the numbers. Success being the ability to produce profits that not only justify the financial investment it was but future investments (games that take years) as well.

 

[Xandinho]

It is still possible for it to end in success, but that is a hope more than a likelihood based on the numbers. Success being the ability to produce profits that not only justify the financial investment it was but future investments (games that take years) as well.

I have the feeling that this game will only manage to turn things around if they release a classic mode. If they don’t, the numbers might improve a bit if they fix some of the glaring issues, but not enough to make the game a long-term success. If things continue as they are, I think Civ7 will have a lifespan of, at most, five years.

Civ7 pretty much confirms how much switching civilizations is a bad idea for these games. I doubt anyone will be crazy enough to try something like that again after this. The developers need to understand that the key to success in these games comes down to two things: immersion and identification with the civilization we’re playing. Any so-called ‘bold’ attempt that undermines either of those will never be a good idea.

 

[socratic]

If Civ7 had those changes without eras and civ-switching, I'm willing to bet it would be widely regarded as something of a Civ6 2.0. It would probably have worked commercially, but what to change next without then inviting the backlash we are seeing now is a good question.

A significant part of the backlash is from people who want the franchise to be more like some previous iteration.

PS: I brought up Civ9 assuming that Civ8 plays it safe. Civ7 is radically innovative, but if it hadn't been, then Civ8 might've been the one shouldering the burden of trying to innovate more.

I dont know about this. Civ 6 was able to carve its own identity from Civ 5 without radically changing the core design in the way Civ 7 has.