Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[Gorbles]

Doesn't the whole map get redrawn?

Currently, yes. Maybe it's not the only solution. Maybe it is.

But people need to at least theoretically explore the idea.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Actually since Firaxis explores the idea using older building styles (which means it's possible to get much more assets than they are now), I don't think there's some technical limitation on the number of assets to load.

More likely ages were developed as separate games first and thus it was easier to code age transition as map generation based on input from previous age.

But sure, it's hard to say from outside. My almost 30 years is software development taught me that there could be anything inside the code and for weirdest reasons.

 

[Crashdummy]

How do you unload and load in new assets on a regular turn end? Hypothetical technical challenge.

Previous Civs made resources show up and hide themselves on regular turn ends just fine...

Or are you guys forgetting already that things like Oil and Uranium were not present on the map from the start?

You guys talk as if every single change proposed is a technical marvel...

 

[Gorbles]

Previous Civs made resources show up and hide themselves on regular turn ends just fine...

Or are you guys forgetting already that things like Oil and Uranium were not present on the map from the start?

You guys talk as if every single change proposed is a technical marvel...

Resource assets were probably pre-loaded across the board. Units are not resources. Structures are not resources. Natural wonders are not resources.

And no, it doesn't have to be a technological marvel. You're saying it's doable, I'm asking how. If your answer is it's not your job to figure that out, then logically you don't know how doable it is. It doesn't have to be any kind of a marvel. Sometimes it's just a slog. It still needs resourcing.

To be clear, because my edit of my previous post didn't go through - I understand your issues with transitions. I'm not trying to invalidate those. I don't share them though, and that's fine. What I am asking is: how would you solve the things that Age Transitions currently solve at a technological level?

 

[tman2000]

I remember this.

The main problem with this presentation, and what we’re addressing with this update, is that these Yields are acting as a recommender without actually being one. The Yields presented are supposed to show the highest possible Yield currently available. This sounds great in theory, but remember earlier when I said they might not have all the data you need? This is due to the sheer depth of the game. There are so many factors that can modify the Yield output of a given tile.

https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/from-the-devs/developing-settlements/

 

[stealth_nsk]

https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/from-the-devs/developing-settlements/

But it's quite opposite to "The latest patch notes say that they don't want players to have too much information".

Developers said that previous approach didn't provide correct information and described how they fixed it.

 

[Xur]

My concern is that, Firaxis has never had a problem identifying problems - it's always their solutions that are halfbaked. But I think no matter how bad the solution is, the reviews are going to get more positive from this. Interesting news either way.

 

[Crashdummy]

Resource assets were probably pre-loaded across the board. Units are not resources. Structures are not resources. Natural wonders are not resources.

And no, it doesn't have to be a technological marvel. You're saying it's doable, I'm asking how. If your answer is it's not your job to figure that out, then logically you don't know how doable it is. It doesn't have to be any kind of a marvel. Sometimes it's just a slog. It still needs resourcing.

To be clear, because my edit of my previous post didn't go through - I understand your issues with transitions. I'm not trying to invalidate those. I don't share them though, and that's fine. What I am asking is: how would you solve the things that Age Transitions currently solve at a technological level?

Natural wonders can be preloaded too

Wha do you mean about structures? To make them obsolete you only need to change a flag on them, there is literally nothing as easy as that

Units? What do you mean with Units? The upgrading part? You were able to upgrade with a click on a button just fine, it upgraded instantly, so you should be able to upgrade it at any time. I dont think they should auto upgrade though

 

[Gorbles]

Natural wonders can be preloaded too

Wha do you mean about structures? To make them obsolete you only need to change a flag on them, there is literally nothing as easy as that

Units? What do you mean with Units? The upgrading part? You were able to upgrade with a click on a button just fine, it upgraded instantly, so you should be able to upgrade it at any time. I dont think they should auto upgrade though

There will be a limit to what you can preload so that the game runs as intended on minimum spec hardware (not even counting consoles - just PC min-spec requirements). This will also affect things like loading times.

This is why I'm asking why you think this can all be done in a regular turn end with zero consequences to any other aspect of gameplay (including the game setup, etc). Don't you think, if there was a way to make it less jarring, they would have?

Admittedly, some of this hypothetical rides on the game not being shoved out of the door early. So let's speculate: do you think that they would? As some kind of postlaunch technical improvement?

I play Age of Empires IV. That game has seen, post-release, significant tech uplifts like a new terrain renderer, revamped water rendering, improved AO and shadows, and so on. All the while performance work is done to keep load times down as new content (factions, assets, etc) are added. I have no doubt that Firaxis do do some of the same (when adding new content, to ensure a baseline performance target is still met). So the question is: how much of a hit do you think it'll be to load everything required for every single Age at the start of the game, only invoking it at a specific threshold?

 

[itix]

Resource assets were probably pre-loaded across the board. Units are not resources. Structures are not resources. Natural wonders are not resources.

And no, it doesn't have to be a technological marvel. You're saying it's doable, I'm asking how. If your answer is it's not your job to figure that out, then logically you don't know how doable it is. It doesn't have to be any kind of a marvel. Sometimes it's just a slog. It still needs resourcing.

To be clear, because my edit of my previous post didn't go through - I understand your issues with transitions. I'm not trying to invalidate those. I don't share them though, and that's fine. What I am asking is: how would you solve the things that Age Transitions currently solve at a technological level?

Is there really a challenge? Games are developed in high level languages with a high degree of abstractions. Issues are mostly logical issues, or sometimes performance issues, because you must support all obscure consoles from yesteryear. Especially that ill-fated VR version that is already abandoned. But if they were free from HW ties, it would not be a challenge.

 

[Gorbles]

Is there really a challenge? Games are developed in high level languages with a high degree of abstractions. Issues are mostly logical issues, or sometimes performance issues, because you must support all obscure consoles from yesteryear. Especially that ill-fated VR version that is already abandoned. But if they were free from HW ties, it would not be a challenge.

C++ isn't what I'd call a high-level language, and that's the most common language used for a whole bunch of game engines.

There are always challenges. The developer's job is to meet that challenge with the least side-effects possible. Ideally none! And again, this is ignoring consoles. Hardware ties exist on the PC platform. These are the PC minimum specs:

• Processor: Intel i5-4690 / Intel i3-10100 / AMD Ryzen 3 1200
• Memory: 8 GB RAM
• Graphics: NVIDIA GTX 1050 / AMD RX 460 / Intel Arc A380

A 4th-gen i5 is old. Any i3 is incredibly low powered. 8GB RAM seems like a lot, but is barely a starter these days (for better or worse). And that's to say nothing of an nVidia GPU that's coming up a decade old. You might think, "ah, but this is because of consoles". Well, let's take a look at VI (minimum specs again):

• Processor: Intel Core i3 2.5 Ghz or AMD Phenom II 2.6 Ghz or greater
• Memory: 4 GB RAM
• Graphics: 1 GB & AMD 5570 or nVidia 450 or Intel Integrated Graphics 530

These are significantly lower (DX11 in VI to DX12 in VII as well). Wildly lower, even. The PC min-spec for VII has, roughly, doubled compared to VI. Possibly tripled.

 

[Crashdummy]

There will be a limit to what you can preload so that the game runs as intended on minimum spec hardware (not even counting consoles - just PC min-spec requirements). This will also affect things like loading times.

This is why I'm asking why you think this can all be done in a regular turn end with zero consequences to any other aspect of gameplay (including the game setup, etc). Don't you think, if there was a way to make it less jarring, they would have?

Admittedly, some of this hypothetical rides on the game not being shoved out of the door early. So let's speculate: do you think that they would? As some kind of postlaunch technical improvement?

I play Age of Empires IV. That game has seen, post-release, significant tech uplifts like a new terrain renderer, revamped water rendering, improved AO and shadows, and so on. All the while performance work is done to keep load times down as new content (factions, assets, etc) are added. I have no doubt that Firaxis do do some of the same (when adding new content, to ensure a baseline performance target is still met). So the question is: how much of a hit do you think it'll be to load everything required for every single Age at the start of the game, only invoking it at a specific threshold?

How many Natural Wonders do you think would need to be hidden? Its not like we have hundreds of them hidden. No, it wouldnt have any impact on performance

I dont think they would have made it less jarring, because i think they saw a positive in breaking the game into 3 mini games. They didnt split the game because they had no alternative, they didn it because it was their design intent. And it was one more example of Devs being disconnected with their playerbasee. Its not the first example, it wont be the last

Also, Ed Beach seems to want to take Civilization into as much of a board game as he can, and i am told that resets like these ones are a thing on the modern board games

It wasnt a technical issue, its a design issue

 

[SammyKhalifa]

People who use "board game" as derogatory confuse me as much as people who don't accept that it's been that way since the beginning of the series.

 

[Gorbles]

How many Natural Wonders do you think would need to be hidden? Its not like we have hundreds of them hidden. No, it wouldnt have any impact on performance

I dont think they would have made it less jarring, because i think they saw a positive in breaking the game into 3 mini games. They didnt split the game because they had no alternative, they didn it because it was their design intent. And it was one more example of Devs being disconnected with their playerbasee. Its not the first example, it wont be the last

Also, Ed Beach seems to want to take Civilization into as much of a board game as he can, and i am told that resets like these ones are a thing on the modern board games

It wasnt a technical issue, its a design issue

Fair enough. Can't say I agree, but neither of us know, so. It's a reasonable theory.

 

[Crashdummy]

People who use "board game" as derogatory confuse me as much as people who don't accept that it's been that way since the beginning of the series.

I am not using it in derogatory way. I am talking about the reasons why the design decisions were made. I think those werent technical reasons, but intentional decisions, and Ed Beach's love for board games had a lot to do with it

 

[Xandinho]

Another week where the reviews ended mostly positive (52% this week, 51% last week). These are the only two weeks since launch in which there have been more positive than negative reviews.

 

[ehecatzin]

People who use "board game" as derogatory confuse me as much as people who don't accept that it's been that way since the beginning of the series.

Some people that might get surprised about how much game theory goes into board games. who would have believed strategy game developers would be into that

 

[itix]

People who use "board game" as derogatory confuse me as much as people who don't accept that it's been that way since the beginning of the series.

It hasnt.

 

[Siddorm]

Could we say that our criterion for Update 1.3.0 to be awarded a like by this thread is:
The Steam reviews % positive is above 55% for the 30-day period that starts on the first full day that 1.3.0 is available.
Would this be reasonable? If so, please like this message.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Could we say that our criterion for Update 1.3.0 to be awarded a like by this thread is:
The Steam reviews % positive is above 55% for the 30-day period that starts on the first full day that 1.3.0 is available.
Would this be reasonable? If so, please like this message.

Why? What are those numbers are based on?