Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[GeneralZift]

I like Civ as a sandbox but I like Civ more as a LAN game. The player interactions are my favourite part - when a Civ game has the player interactions impact your empire building, that makes the experience interesting.

For it to be a good sandbox, I need better AI than Civ offers currently. I enjoyed Civ5 's AI, not because they're good but because they're generally less predictable than 6 or 7, which makes for better Sandboxes.

If the AI is always the same, then the sandbox experience will get old quickly.

 

[stealth_nsk]

It looks like the decline in player numbers is slowing - perhaps we have hit the floor.
Do you think civ will try an early sale to increase numbers?.

I wouldn't call any sale "early" at this point, compared to Civ6, which had 2 sales in the first 3 months. Anyway, it looks like Firaxis is setting ground for summer sale in June, with the 1.3 patch and first part of the next DLC pack coming together. I wouldn't expect any sale before this.

As for initial sales, i think the product sold well initially on both PC and console. I do think a lot of that is down to reputation. I dont know if retention has been better on console than PC, perhaps console players want different things out of the game to PC players. My gut instinct is that retention has been low overall which doesn't bode well for selling DLC

If you speak about sales, that's totally normal for any game. You sale a lot of units on release and when sales drop to really low until either discounts (for those who didn't want to buy at full price) or significant improvements (for those who didn't buy because of the game problems) come.

If we speak about retention, meaning number of returning users, that's a bit unrelated to sales, but still interesting. Retention is generally correlates with game length and replayability. I'd say Civ7 SP has worse replayability than previous Civ games, due to less wild map variety, but it still has much more replayability than the majority of the games overall. However, I can't say about Civ7 MP, I expect it to be much better than previous Civ games. I wouldn't be surprised if console audience play MP more than steam players, at least until Hotseat is released, because Steam keeps the traditional Civ fans, while consoles probably hold more new audience.

 

[trev1972]

I wouldn't call any sale "early" at this point, compared to Civ6, which had 2 sales in the first 3 months. Anyway, it looks like Firaxis is setting ground for summer sale in June, with the 1.3 patch and first part of the next DLC pack coming together. I wouldn't expect any sale before this.


If you speak about sales, that's totally normal for any game. You sale a lot of units on release and when sales drop to really low until either discounts (for those who didn't want to buy at full price) or significant improvements (for those who didn't buy because of the game problems) come.

If we speak about retention, meaning number of returning users, that's a bit unrelated to sales, but still interesting. Retention is generally correlates with game length and replayability. I'd say Civ7 SP has worse replayability than previous Civ games, due to less wild map variety, but it still has much more replayability than the majority of the games overall. However, I can't say about Civ7 MP, I expect it to be much better than previous Civ games. I wouldn't be surprised if console audience play MP more than steam players, at least until Hotseat is released, because Steam keeps the traditional Civ fans, while consoles probably hold more new audience.

I was referring to the number of people remaining engaged with the game. I would expect that if a low number of people are still invested in the game it will hurt future DLC sales.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I was referring to the number of people remaining engaged with the game. I would expect that if a low number of people are still invested in the game it will hurt future DLC sales.

It's something which is really hard to measure. I'd say people tend to reengage with decent patches, so if DLC comes together with big patch, which it usually does, it should work.

 

[Siptah]

I was referring to the number of people remaining engaged with the game. I would expect that if a low number of people are still invested in the game it will hurt future DLC sales.

It will.

But keep in mind that the DLC sales for the first two probably are between amazing and good at full price, due to the packages that seemingly sold very well.* So, this will be a very late 2025 to 2026 problem.

* Gamalytic estimated around half a million owners in the early access, meaning that many people bought the deluxe or founders package on steam. Additionally, I'm beginning to think that the 3 million sold copies in the civ franchise since last April include these DLCs as copies, as TT has calculated in that way earlier already (although only counting expansions, and not smaller DLCs).

 

[lordfistas]

There is an interesting thread on Reddit.

"I play it as a sort of roleplaying fantasy game, and I love it. It's definitely sandbox-y, the win conditions are rarely my goal"

"The fact that I don't care for the winning screen. I play Civ to build up civilizations, and it's a lot of fun! But I usually set my own goals for what I want my society to become - there are tons of things you can go for!"

"One of my favorite things to do in Civ games is getting the “winning” out of the way and then spend a thousand years just playing world police."

That is not a representative snapshot of the Civ community, but it is interesting how some playstyles prefer open-ended games. For them, Civ 6 is the SimCity of the 4X genre.

https://www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/1ksfgrz/has_civilization_series_ever_been_a_sandbox

I'm one of them — I have around 4.5k hours in Civ 6, but I've only won once or twice since release.
Most of the time, I just simulate and play in an RP style, leading a country on the world map. Same with Civ V, Civ IV, and Civ III. Civ 7 is the first Civilization game I haven't bought, mainly due to the lack of sandbox features and proper modding support to tailor the game to my taste.
To me, it feels more like a "board game simulator" than a true civilization simulator.
Personally, I don’t agree with some of the core design choices — I’m still grieving over the fact that workers in Civ 6 had limited charges and couldn’t build roads, and Civ 7 somehow made that even worse.

I really hope the next installment shifts back toward a more immersive, civ-building experience instead of streamlined board-game mechanics.

It’s honestly sad to see such a sharp drop in player interest so soon after release — for a franchise known for its depth and replayability, that’s not a good sign.

 

[queenpea]

There are several hints so far. We've seen report of very good sales in the UK for PS. Also, someone analyzed statistics on Steam and with release of Civ7 total number of players in all Civ games dropped on Steam significantly, supposing they moved to other platforms with Civ7 release.

None of this is hard proof, but each hint points in the same direction.

I think we should be careful with assuming much from this chart. We know it's measuring in dollars, for example -- I would assume that my purchase of the Founder's Edition adds $130 towards the Civ 7 column. I'm not sure of the pricing of these other games, so it is a hard comparison for me. You have to assume, judging by the strong pre-orders and the number of players playing during early access that a good number of players purchased the Founders and Deluxe Editions, further inflating numbers a bit here ($130 and $99). In any case, the chart may just indicate very strong Steam numbers.

If you had a chart showing that Civ 7 was a top seller outside of Steam, then I think we would have something to talk about.

It's a bit confusing as some of the games on the chart are available on multiple platforms, while others are not. Monster Hunter Wilds, for example, is estimated to have between 5.14 and 6.83 million owners on Steam and is also available on Playstation and Xbox. The number two game, Assassins Creed Shadows has only between 592k and 682k owners on Steam but is also sold on Playstation and Xbox. I'm not familiar with either series but I would assume that Monster Hunter is primarily a PC game while Assassin's Creed leans into the console players. Similarly, from Civ's Steam numbers I would assume that PC/Steam is its top-performing channel and that it's 7/8 place finish is powered by $$$ Steam sales.

 

[Core Imposter]

Firaxis couldn't do this without 2k's permission but they could split the Civilization into two distinct game lines, the current Civ 5-7 popular, kiddie line and then go back and create a serious, adult gamer line to follow up Civ 1 - Civ4 (includes SMAC).

Civ 8: Blood of the Kings
Civ 9: Cities and Gardens
Civ 10: Stack the Skulls
Civ 11: Dancing through the Ages
Civ 12: My Liege, My Lord
Civ 13: Chameleon

Which the current version could be called Chameleon because the Civs are just camouflage.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think we should be careful with assuming much from this chart. We know it's measuring in dollars, for example -- I would assume that my purchase of the Founder's Edition adds $130 towards the Civ 7 column. I'm not sure of the pricing of these other games, so it is a hard comparison for me. You have to assume, judging by the strong pre-orders and the number of players playing during early access that a good number of players purchased the Founders and Deluxe Editions, further inflating numbers a bit here ($130 and $99). In any case, the chart may just indicate very strong Steam numbers.

Yeah, the chart alone doesn't show much. It's the number of hints pointing in one direction, which makes the conclusion more likely. BTW, there were at least one more hint, I forgot to mention above. As Siptah, reminded, the number of total Civilization units sold is 3M higher than in previous report. It's hard to imagine older civs to take significant part of the sales recently, so if Steam sales were about 1M, we could expect at least as much on the other platforms.

Sure, this hint by itself is as indirect as others.

 

[queenpea]

Yeah, the chart alone doesn't show much. It's the number of hints pointing in one direction, which makes the conclusion more likely. BTW, there were at least one more hint, I forgot to mention above. As Siptah, reminded, the number of total Civilization units sold is 3M higher than in previous report. It's hard to imagine older civs to take significant part of the sales recently, so if Steam sales were about 1M, we could expect at least as much on the other platforms.

Sure, this hint by itself is as indirect as others.

What is the source for 3 million?

 

[Nineliveslost]

I'm one of them — I have around 4.5k hours in Civ 6, but I've only won once or twice since release.
Most of the time, I just simulate and play in an RP style, leading a country on the world map. Same with Civ V, Civ IV, and Civ III. Civ 7 is the first Civilization game I haven't bought, mainly due to the lack of sandbox features and proper modding support to tailor the game to my taste.
To me, it feels more like a "board game simulator" than a true civilization simulator.
Personally, I don’t agree with some of the core design choices — I’m still grieving over the fact that workers in Civ 6 had limited charges and couldn’t build roads, and Civ 7 somehow made that even worse.

I really hope the next installment shifts back toward a more immersive, civ-building experience instead of streamlined board-game mechanics.

It’s honestly sad to see such a sharp drop in player interest so soon after release — for a franchise known for its depth and replayability, that’s not a good sign.

100% THIS !!!! I feel exactly the same way and was kinda pissed that they based changes on how many games were completed. To me , they only took input from the "pros" that try to score the highest points in the shortest time. I have been playing since Civ 1 and I have never played that way

Firaxis done screwed up

 

[AD1730]

What is the source for 3 million?

I think they are pulling the 3 million number from the recent Take Two earnings call. The problem is that number is commingled with the entire Civilization series.

 

[MutilationWave]

It looks like the decline in player numbers is slowing - perhaps we have hit the floor.
Do you think civ will try an early sale to increase numbers?.

As for initial sales, i think the product sold well initially on both PC and console. I do think a lot of that is down to reputation. I dont know if retention has been better on console than PC, perhaps console players want different things out of the game to PC players. My gut instinct is that retention has been low overall which doesn't bode well for selling DLC

As somebody who paid for founder's edition I wouldn't be mad at all if they did a sale. I hope they do. More money and more players means more content. I hope.

 

[queenpea]

I think they are pulling the 3 million number from the recent Take Two earnings call. The problem is that number is commingled with the entire Civilization series.

And the *vibe* of the call was not altogether positive for Civ VII...it felt like an afterthought.

 

[stealth_nsk]

What is the source for 3 million?

I think they are pulling the 3 million number from the recent Take Two earnings call. The problem is that number is commingled with the entire Civilization series.

They told the number of total Civilization units sold, which is 3M higher than previous number stated a couple years before. So yes, it takes some amount of older games as well, but I doubt it's that many of them, since the previous number was provided long after all Civ6 expansions came out, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, even if we assume previous games took 1M of this number (which I strongly doubt), this still leaves 2M for Civ7.

 

[AD1730]

And the *vibe* of the call was not altogether positive for Civ VII...it felt like an afterthought.

Yes, I don't see how one could conclude that Civ 7 is doing well from a sales or player reception standpoint based on what was shared in that call. If there was a way they could have spun it to look good, they would have.

 

[queenpea]

As somebody who paid for founder's edition I wouldn't be mad at all if they did a sale. I hope they do. More money and more players means more content. I hope.

I think a summer sale, as suggested by others, makes a lot of sense! I would be fine with that (also a Founders buyer).

 

[queenpea]

They told the number of total Civilization units sold, which is 3M higher than previous number stated a couple years before. So yes, it takes some amount of older games as well, but I doubt it's that many of them, since the previous number was provided long after all Civ6 expansions came out, if I remember correctly.

Anyway, even if we assume previous games took 1M of this number (which I strongly doubt), this still leaves 2M for Civ7.

Well, it depends which year we are talking about. Civ 6 has enjoyed heavy discounts, so it's really hard for me to say how many of the three million units we can assume should be counted for VII. Also, how do we count expansion packs? Do these count as Civilization units?

 

[Askia Muhammad]

I increasingly wonder if Firaxis have been working to solve a problem (keeping players engaged to the end game) which a lot of players really didn't want/need them to solve. The 3 act structure and civ switching do achieve their goals - so maybe its the goals which are the problem?

Yes, I said elsewhere, I think they created problems in their head and set about on a path to solve them.

I legitimately have never heard someone complain about not finishing games and the complaints regarding snowballing are more AI issues than core game design, the era resets are a band aid that doesn’t fix the core issue much like I perceive Civ 7 patches to be great band aids but failing to address the actual wounds (issues)

 

[queenpea]

I legitimately have never heard someone complain about not finishing games and the complaints regarding snowballing are more AI issues than core game design

Exactly this. I also don't find the Ages system to have perfectly remedied the snowballing issue. Considering that Modern is a sprint to victory, I find that most games are won/lost in the Exploration Age. This mirrors previous iterations where the winner can be predicted by the mid-game.