Player stats, sales, and reception speculation thread

[Smegger213]

To all those saying the reviews are getting better.
No they are not. It is still at 47% positive, 53% negative.
Look at the reviews for the last 30 days, and count them up.
There are 472 positive against 577 negative over that period.
That's over 100 more negative than positive reviews.
So, how anybody can say that the positive count is rising, is beyond me.

Also, like others have said, the player count looks to be dropping back down to the pre-patch level.
The 30 day average is still at 6553.
So, player count isn't improving that much either.

Like I said a few days ago.
Some people on here can just not accept that the game is failing.
They will do anything to try to spin it into a success.
As long as the player count is so low, and the review score is negative, then it will stay a failure.

 

[aieeegrunt]

But they haven't yet. They're still 628 to 1,433 higher depending on the day of the week.

• The 3 Sunday peaks in September before 1.2.5: 8,971, 9,217, 9,670. Sunday 19th peak: 10,404 (734 to 1,433 higher)
• The 3 Monday peaks in September before 1.2.5: 6,699, 6,927, 7,275. Monday 20th peak: 8,078 (803 to 1,379 higher)
• The 3 Tuesday peaks in September before 1.2.5: 6,320, 6,490, 6,745 Tuesday 21st peak: 7,373 (628 to 1,053 higher)

We're all very aware though that if Civ VIIs development did get stopped early like many people wish then that could be it for the Civilization franchise. Is this a side effect you'd accept in pursuit of actively wanting the game to fail? Isn't it best to keep criticism constructive and keep pushing feedback that you want the developers to hear so perhaps one day you too can enjoy Civ VII? I think the developers have shown they are listening given what we have seen in 8 months worth of updates.

Failure should have consequences. The alternative is worse

Hopefully after the examples of Halo, Fallout and now Civ the next time someone contemplates gutting the core identity of a franchise they’ll think it through.

Add the Halo TV show and Rings of Power to that list.

When your newest game has half the playercount of a previous franchise entry released 15 years ago then it is obvious. And dont get started on VI where it is a 1/4. This has been going on for so long that we argue over minute numbers, in the end it's all the same the numbers are horrific.

Like the closest Civilization game to VII in current playercount numbers right now is not even V, it's Civ IV...

Just waiting for them to wrap it up and go back to basics for Civ 8.

The mental gymnastics involved in trying not to face this have been fascinating

 

[Gorbles]

I don't think anyone's avoiding the fact that VII has an uphill struggle to get anywhere.

The difference is that some of us want it to do well, while some others simply don't.

Attempting to move the goalposts from any positive change back to "well the game has failed overall" is, imo, trying to avoid the idea that this game could in fact get better over time.

Maybe it won't! But some of you should at least probably entertain the theoretical that it might

 

[Smegger213]

I don't think anyone's avoiding the fact that VII has an uphill struggle to get anywhere.

The difference is that some of us want it to do well, while some others simply don't.

Attempting to move the goalposts from any positive change back to "well the game has failed overall" is, imo, trying to avoid the idea that this game could in fact get better over time.

Maybe it won't! But some of you should at least probably entertain the theoretical that it might

Don't get me wrong mate.
I do want the game to do well. I am still playing it and now have over 120 hours play time on it.

But, I am able to face facts and read the data on player numbers and reviews.
The numbers and reviews do not look to be improving when I look at the stats.

 

[aieeegrunt]

I don't think anyone's avoiding the fact that VII has an uphill struggle to get anywhere.

The difference is that some of us want it to do well, while some others simply don't.

Attempting to move the goalposts from any positive change back to "well the game has failed overall" is, imo, trying to avoid the idea that this game could in fact get better over time.

Maybe it won't! But some of you should at least probably entertain the theoretical that it might

It’s going to be very tough. I think a “true classic” mode is the best option if possible. I’d try it out if it did, since I want to see how things like Commanders, the whole town and city thing, no workers etc work.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Like I said a few days ago.
Some people on here can just not accept that the game is failing.
They will do anything to try to spin it into a success.
As long as the player count is so low, and the review score is negative, then it will stay a failure.

I dont have a problem with people liking this game, but trying to spin this disaster of a game release as something positive is dishonest at best.

Also quite telling is the fact that almost noone streams it, and that major youtubers have outright stopped making civ content after it's release.
Potato McWhiskey's tear jerk for instance was quite telling - he tried to spin this as "the game is fine, but they players are so toxic and it's affecting my mental health, and therefore I will take time off now" as the reaon he didn't want to continue showcasing gameplay.
While if you look past all that cope, it was obviously that he was getting burnt out really hard by both the game not being fun to play, and more importantly, noone wanted to watch it either.

When you're a streamer/youtube living off of the revenue stream generated by a high viewer count, having your gaming niche ruined by a terrible game is devastating to your livelihood, and its just natural that they stop streaming at some point when the money just isn't there anymore.
Moderator Action: Removed text. Please do not troll-AH

 

[Pfeffersack]

Yeah its pure coping at this point.
I dont have a problem with people liking this game, but trying to spin this disaster of a game release as something positive is dishonest at best.

Also quite telling is the fact that almost noone streams it, and that major youtubers have outright stopped making civ content after it's release.
Potato McWhiskey's tear jerk for instance was quite telling - he tried to spin this as "the game is fine, but they players are so toxic and it's affecting my mental health, and therefore I will take time off now" as the reaon he didn't want to continue showcasing gameplay.
While if you look past all that cope, it was obviously that he was getting burnt out really hard by both the game not being fun to play, and more importantly, noone wanted to watch it either.

When you're a streamer/youtube living off of the revenue stream generated by a high viewer count, having your gaming niche ruined by a terrible game is devastating to your livelihood, and its just natural that they stop streaming at some point when the money just isn't there anymore.

While I'm rather cautious to speculate about this particular case, for me it was telling how one of the most influencial Civ streamer in the German community (Writing Bull) turned its back on Civ7 recently - I mentioned it here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...culation-thread.697557/page-231#post-16871618

He was a long time stalwart defender of Civ7, but seeing him finally "giving up" (at least for the moment) after having critized the game rather selectively before...you can blame that solely on the need to meet viewer preferences, but I believe that he also simply lost faith in and fun with the game after seeing that even all the released patches weren't enough to bring back the flow he felt with Civ6 (he made a statement directing in that direction when starting the first Civ6 game again). Civ7 problem is just that the released lacked on too many corners. The patches took care of many smaller issues, but we still haven't reached core areas like the problems with the 3rd era, the missing 4th, the religious system, civ-switching, AI,...

 

[IntelligentDisk]

To all those saying the reviews are getting better.
No they are not. It is still at 47% positive, 53% negative.
Look at the reviews for the last 30 days, and count them up.
There are 472 positive against 577 negative over that period.
That's over 100 more negative than positive reviews.
So, how anybody can say that the positive count is rising, is beyond me.

Also, like others have said, the player count looks to be dropping back down to the pre-patch level.
The 30 day average is still at 6553.
So, player count isn't improving that much either.

Like I said a few days ago.
Some people on here can just not accept that the game is failing.
They will do anything to try to spin it into a success.
As long as the player count is so low, and the review score is negative, then it will stay a failure.

Here is a simple graph to help you understand why people are saying reviews are improving. See how October has the best positive % since launch?

No, the player count numbers aren't back to September levels, as I've already proven in other comments. The average peak concurrent players for week 37 is so far 8,528. The average peak concurrent players for the weeks in September are: 7,710, 7,298, 7,054 & 8,020. We are still 508 to 1,474 higher.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

Failure should have consequences. The alternative is worse

Hopefully after the examples of Halo, Fallout and now Civ the next time someone contemplates gutting the core identity of a franchise they’ll think it through.

Add the Halo TV show and Rings of Power to that list.

Yes, failure should have consequences. Wanting a game of a franchise you love to fail which could jeopardise the whole franchise is sad, resentful & nasty.

 

[kotpeter]

View attachment 745587
Here is a simple graph to help you understand why people are saying reviews are improving. See how October has the best positive % since launch?

No, the player count numbers aren't back to September levels, as I've already proven in other comments. The average peak concurrent players for week 37 is so far 8,528. The average peak concurrent players for the weeks in September are: 7,710, 7,298, 7,054 & 8,020. We are still 508 to 1,474 higher.

View attachment 745588

To everyone who is eager to elaborate how bad these numbers still are: the author does not state that the game is now good or in a good state. Nor does anybody state that these numbers are great across the board. It's not worth pointing out again and again that the game is still leaving a lot to be desired in terms of metrics. We all know it.

But the metrics are indeed getting slightly (not significantly) better since the patch landed, and denying it is useless.

 

[IntelligentDisk]

Also quite telling is the fact that almost noone streams it, and that major youtubers have outright stopped making civ content after it's release.
Potato McWhiskey's tear jerk for instance was quite telling - he tried to spin this as "the game is fine, but they players are so toxic and it's affecting my mental health, and therefore I will take time off now" as the reaon he didn't want to continue showcasing gameplay.
While if you look past all that cope, it was obviously that he was getting burnt out really hard by both the game not being fun to play, and more importantly, noone wanted to watch it either.

When you're a streamer/youtube living off of the revenue stream generated by a high viewer count, having your gaming niche ruined by a terrible game is devastating to your livelihood, and its just natural that they stop streaming at some point when the money just isn't there anymore.

The average number of streamers each month currently for Civ VII is in line with the average number of streamers Civ VI had in its first year - under 10. Which major YouTubers have stopped making Civ content by the way? So you're disregarding Potato McWhiskey's own explanation and applying your own narrative.

 

[Kev1916]

But the metrics are indeed getting slightly (not significantly) better since the patch landed, and denying it is useless.

Eh? says who? the game is still getting low numbers, failing each week( Mind the "kids" have been off ..) the game is still 51% negative and current reviews are 57%Negative .

You can deny until the cow's come home but this game aint getting better in any metric

 

[Smegger213]

All I see is yet more cope from those that think this games stats such as reviews and player numbers are improving.
The fact is that they AIN'T.

 

[queenpea]

I don't think it's helpful to talk about "cope" when we are just discussing small changes to metrics. There are people on both sides of the optimist/pessimist divide here who are making arguments in good faith.

 

[Smegger213]

I don't think it's helpful to talk about "cope" when we are just discussing small changes to metrics. There are people on both sides of the optimist/pessimist divide here who are making arguments in good faith.

No, there are certain people that keep on about the same thing time and time again.
But their so called facts just do not add up.
EG how does 472 positive reviews vs 577 negative reviews over the last 30 days indicate that positive reviews are improving?

 

[IntelligentDisk]

@Smegger213 & @Kev1916 have proven themselves completely unwilling, or unable, to acknowledge very simple graphs.

No, there are certain people that keep on about the same thing time and time again.
But their so called facts just do not add up.
EG how does 472 positive reviews vs 577 negative reviews over the last 30 days indicate that positive reviews are improving?

You are able to read a bar chart, correct?

 

[kotpeter]

Eh? says who? the game is still getting low numbers, failing each week( Mind the "kids" have been off ..) the game is still 51% negative and current reviews are 57%Negative .

You can deny until the cow's come home but this game aint getting better in any metric

We're actually having a somewhat promising month with a first-time significant increase of average number of players (it may still drop before the end of the month though):

source

And regarding reviews, Steam says that 46% of reviews for the past 30 days are positive. A few weeks ago it was 42%. So there's the dynamic I'm talking about.

Again, I'm not saying the game's great now, go play it. No. I'm comparing the latest time period to the one before the latest. And a few before them of the same length. That's all.

And I don't think this is coping, it's just observation. I'm interested in the future of the game and the franchise regardless of whether it fails or succeeds. I will be interested while developers are still trying to come up with something new gameplay-wise. Once they shift their focus to remasters or other genres, they'll most likely lose me as a customer.

 

[Kwami]

It's absolutely amazing that some folks here see actual numbers and still deny reality.

Before the patch, recent reviews were 41% positive. Now, they're 46% positive. That's an improvement. What's the point in denying it?

 

[kotpeter]

It's absolutely amazing that some folks here see actual numbers and still deny reality.

Before the patch, recent reviews were 41% positive. Now, they're 46% positive. That's an improvement. What's the point in denying it?

What's baffling to me is that civfanatics has subforums for all franchise games and even some non-civilization games. If you like Civ 5 or 6 Humankind or Old World more and strongly dislike Civ 7, why even visit this subforum and thread in the first place? If all you have to say is that the game is in a bad state and will fail, why assume it's something that contributes to the discussion? Especially given the fact that it's been stated multiple times here already.

 

[Leucarum]

Reacting to every jitter is the problematic part

The general consensus (which I agree with) is that 7 is improving so I'm not gonna be surprised to see reviews improve. For player numbers it is too soon to be certain, but it does look as if we're seeing a jump followed by a reversion to the mean player count, rather than a sustained revival. Time will tell, I don't think we can be sure yet either way. And if Firaxis keep their monthly patch cadence we might soon have our signal from last patch drowned out by a new effect.