Please tell me how to use Berserker wisely?

[myclan]

I had a very lucky game, with Natural wonder providing huge amount science and a lot of CS providing culture. But Kumasi was conqured by Tamar, I don't have access to any iron so I decided to use Berserker to liberate Kumasi, which also had iron.
I built a spearman to kill a barbarian for the eureka of Military Tactics, also built 6 farm to inspire Fedualism. Finally with the +50% policy I hard built 4 Berserker. But when they arrived at the battlefield AI already had wall and machinary. The berserker could hardly survive one shot, I just had to order him to fall back or I will lost it.
So how to use this unit

 

[Disgustipated]

You should definitely have a battering ram with you to take care of the walls. As for the crossbowmen... well. They are kind of lethal to berzerkers. Your best bet is to build more than 4 of them. I often find I need like a 2 to 1 ratio to persevere against crossbowmen. Kind of annoying, it's just not a great unique unit.

 

[UWHabs]

Best strategy with a Berserker is... don't. If your science is flowing well, better to race to gunpowder and upgrade warriors to muskets and use them. Gonna be cheaper overall, and much strong offense+defense.

 

[Socrates99]

It's depressing but they're just not a great unit. If you send a ram and eventually a siege tower with them they can crush cities fast but you're almost better off going for knights.

The idea behind berserkers seems to be quickly invading and killing everything before it can retaliate but in function it doesn't work out that great.

Not a good tribute to the Viking age imo. Sad that it's been that way 2 Civs in a row.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I had a very lucky game, with Natural wonder providing huge amount science and a lot of CS providing culture. But Kumasi was conqured by Tamar, I don't have access to any iron so I decided to use Berserker to liberate Kumasi, which also had iron.
I built a spearman to kill a barbarian for the eureka of Military Tactics, also built 6 farm to inspire Fedualism. Finally with the +50% policy I hard built 4 Berserker. But when they arrived at the battlefield AI already had wall and machinary. The berserker could hardly survive one shot, I just had to order him to fall back or I will lost it.
So how to use this unit

I don't have a lot of experience using Berserkers, but...

Berserkers aren't the Viking infantry, they're the Viking cavalry. Their bonus movement abilities are what they're for - if you aren't using them, you don't need a Berserker. and you're just wasting resources. iirc, a Swordsman and an Archer together have the same cost as 1 Berserker, and the same upkeep.

Unlike everybody else's cavalry, Berserkers aren't vulnerable to anti-cavalry units. On the contrary, since Berserkers are technically melee units, they should get the melee bonus against anti-cavalry, so I suppose they should crush Pikemen like empty beer cans (I haven't tried it, but just looking at the numbers, it should be an ugly slaughter). Berserkers should even do alright against Knights, provided they're attacking and not being attacked.

iirc, their 4 Movement Points is only triggered when they start a turn inside enemy territory. So making that rapid attack from distance requires that they cross into enemy territory in a place where they won't immediately come under fire. Also, they're stronger when attacking and weaker when being attacked, so making those 4-move attacks is even more important, and they're the same as a Swordsman if used as a shield for an Archer (again, wasting resources - you can almost build 2 Swordsmen for the cost of 1 Berserker).

So I think a good Viking invasion might be something like 4 Swordsmen up the middle, shielding Archers and Catapults, with a Berserker on each flank. Once your regular units attack a city, the Berserkers can run off and just make a mess of things: Attack civilians, bust up tile improvements, hunt down wounded units, set fire to districts.

 

[Naeshar]

Berserkers are not a great unit, though you can utilize it. It is strong on attack, but weak on defense, plus gets movement while in enemy lands. A poor mans knight in a raiding civilization (1).
I honestly do not think they are meant to be the meat of your army, but rather those who stay on the outskirts, raid, and quickly attack on opportunity. One berserker does not mean much, as it usually cannot kill a unit in one attack. If you pair them with a GG and ram, they can get pretty strong.
You dont go frontal on walls with only swordsmen either, do you. Berserker is not a unit for siege and taking cities, you should hop in their land, take their gold and get away before they hit you . Civ players however do not usually go to war for the spoils, but cities, thats why we fail to value berserkers.

Edit: (1) as described by EgonSpengler above

 

[chazzycat]

Ok, so they are mobile pillaging units more like cavalry than infantry. Makes sense, I'm on board with that. But...does that really change things? Do they compare favorably to knights? I still don't really see it. Knight tech is much more attractive, not being a dead-end tech. Plus you can actually upgrade them from previous units which is HUGE

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Ok, so they are mobile pillaging units more like cavalry than infantry. Makes sense, I'm on board with that. But...does that really change things? Do they compare favorably to knights? I still don't really see it. Knight tech is much more attractive, not being a dead-end tech. Plus you can actually upgrade them from previous units which is HUGE

Nothing compared favorably to the knight. Knights' strength to cost ratio is the best in the game.

 

[Dragabond]

"Use berserkers wisely" is funny to me.

Try using them unwisely, throwing caution to the wind, in true berserker fashion. Take what you can, kill whomever gets in your way, and if you die then at least you have a seat at the table in Valhalla.

As for accomplishing your goals, well, there's an entire military that you can build to do that. Diversity and balance, rather than over-specialization. Berserkers get an unfair rap; they're a lot of fun to use, even if they are objectively worse than some other units.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Nothing compared favorably to the knight. Knights' strength to cost ratio is the best in the game.

Berserkers also suffer from the game's crazy time-compression. In real life, the classic Viking era was the 9th Century (the show Vikings, basically) but the European knightly orders were founded in the 11th or 12th Centuries. Civ compresses those 300 years into 1 step on the tech tree, so if you want to use Berserkers to terrorize your neighbors, you probably need to save up enough gold to buy a couple of them the instant you research the tech. The entire era of Ragnar Lodbrok and his sons swilling mead and knocking heads may only be a few turns.

 

[acluewithout]

...So I think a good Viking invasion might be something like 4 Swordsmen up the middle, shielding Archers and Catapults, with a Berserker on each flank. Once your regular units attack a city, the Berserkers can run off and just make a mess of things: Attack civilians, bust up tile improvements, hunt down wounded units, set fire to districts.

If Pikemen didn’t suck, you’d actually be better running with Beserker and Pikes. You’d build spears, and then when you got Military Tactics, build or buy Beserker and upgrade your Spears to Pikes. (You can do a similar thing with unique units that unlock at Military Science, pre-building Horses then upgrading them to Cavalry while you build or buy your unique unit.)

Beserkers are like light Cav, pillaging and harassing enemies. They’re not actually that weak on Defence because they can pillage farms for health and retreat easily, but yes they are fragile if they stand their ground.

Instead, the problem is that Pikes are lame. Specifically, they are too expensive and too vulnerable to ranged. Additionally, Knights - well - don’t think Knights are too strong, but they are far too accessible both in terms of eurekas / science and cost (including maintenance).

 

[chazzycat]

"Use berserkers wisely" is funny to me.

Try using them unwisely, throwing caution to the wind

Ah yes, the very definition of "Military Tactics". You know, the tech that unlocks berserkers.

Let's solve all the problems - move berserkers to iron working tech. Done.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Berserkers qualify to get the "Double Oligarchy" bonus - having the government and the legacy card at the same time. Then try to get the tortoise promotion.

 

[acluewithout]

Beserkers with +1 Movement and Tortoise is pretty good. Plus Oligarchy.

 

[myclan]

You should definitely have a battering ram with you to take care of the walls. As for the crossbowmen... well. They are kind of lethal to berzerkers. Your best bet is to build more than 4 of them. I often find I need like a 2 to 1 ratio to persevere against crossbowmen. Kind of annoying, it's just not a great unique unit.

For human players we don't have the production bonus like the AI. We win not because we can do much more damage to the AI, but lose less during the war, which make we can keep on going. We may take one city very quickly with their high attack strength, but need to recover for long after suffering much damage.

Best strategy with a Berserker is... don't. If your science is flowing well, better to race to gunpowder and upgrade warriors to muskets and use them. Gonna be cheaper overall, and much strong offense+defense.

I don't know if there is chance that I don't have access to niter as well. Musket is good, but I hope I can do something without the dependancy of strategic resource. But seems they are just not very effective.

It's depressing but they're just not a great unit. If you send a ram and eventually a siege tower with them they can crush cities fast but you're almost better off going for knights.

The idea behind berserkers seems to be quickly invading and killing everything before it can retaliate but in function it doesn't work out that great.

Not a good tribute to the Viking age imo. Sad that it's been that way 2 Civs in a row.

Knight is almost always the best medieval unit but they need iron. I found they can crush out cities quick, too. But have to suffer 1~2 shot from the city or range unit behind it. Making second strike quite difficult

Beserkers with +1 Movement and Tortoise is pretty good. Plus Oligarchy.

So I wonder if the promotion in the left tree(+7 vs melee and range) can also boost up the defense strength? +7 VS +10 is only a bit lower but have a effect both melee and range.

I don't have a lot of experience using Berserkers, but...

Berserkers aren't the Viking infantry, they're the Viking cavalry. Their bonus movement abilities are what they're for - if you aren't using them, you don't need a Berserker. and you're just wasting resources. iirc, a Swordsman and an Archer together have the same cost as 1 Berserker, and the same upkeep.

Unlike everybody else's cavalry, Berserkers aren't vulnerable to anti-cavalry units. On the contrary, since Berserkers are technically melee units, they should get the melee bonus against anti-cavalry, so I suppose they should crush Pikemen like empty beer cans (I haven't tried it, but just looking at the numbers, it should be an ugly slaughter). Berserkers should even do alright against Knights, provided they're attacking and not being attacked.

iirc, their 4 Movement Points is only triggered when they start a turn inside enemy territory. So making that rapid attack from distance requires that they cross into enemy territory in a place where they won't immediately come under fire. Also, they're stronger when attacking and weaker when being attacked, so making those 4-move attacks is even more important, and they're the same as a Swordsman if used as a shield for an Archer (again, wasting resources - you can almost build 2 Swordsmen for the cost of 1 Berserker).

So I think a good Viking invasion might be something like 4 Swordsmen up the middle, shielding Archers and Catapults, with a Berserker on each flank. Once your regular units attack a city, the Berserkers can run off and just make a mess of things: Attack civilians, bust up tile improvements, hunt down wounded units, set fire to districts.

But they have 4 movement only when in enemy territory. Considering mostly city only expand to 2nd ring in the early game, which means they have to suffer from attack before they can really reach the city. And I don't think it's fair to compare Berserker with swordman/horseman because Berserker don't need strategy resource at all.

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

So I wonder if the promotion in the left tree(+7 vs melee and range) can also boost up the defense strength? +7 VS +10 is only a bit lower but have a effect both melee and range.

That +7 promotion only gives its bonus when you attack, not when you are defending against a melee or ranged attack.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I always aim for a strong alpha strike with berserkers since they are so lacking defensively.

 

[Disgustipated]

Would be nice if berzerkers got the movement bonus in neutral territory as well. Because parking them in enemy territory is quite dangerous. As mentioned above, borders usually aren't that far out making you vulnerable to getting hit by crossbowman. I know I was having a problem with them in the Viking civ of the week on the TSL Europe map against Polish crossbowman.

 

[EgonSpengler]

But they have 4 movement only when in enemy territory. Considering mostly city only expand to 2nd ring in the early game, which means they have to suffer from attack before they can really reach the city. And I don't think it's fair to compare Berserker with swordman/horseman because Berserker don't need strategy resource at all.

You can definitely get by without horsemen, I don't use those much anyway, but you're pretty screwed if you don't have iron. In fact, not having iron is one reason I declare war on a neighbor. That Berserkers don't require iron means Vikings are slightly less-screwed by not having any iron, and are better at taking it from a neighbor. Still, Berserkers are costly and inefficient for attacking cities; I would only use Berserkers to take a city if I was desperate and the city was undefended. Berserkers aren't heavy infantry, they're more like Medieval Special Forces.

 

[myclan]

You can definitely get by without horsemen, I don't use those much anyway, but you're pretty screwed if you don't have iron. In fact, not having iron is one reason I declare war on a neighbor. That Berserkers don't require iron means Vikings are slightly less-screwed by not having any iron, and are better at taking it from a neighbor. Still, Berserkers are costly and inefficient for attacking cities; I would only use Berserkers to take a city if I was desperate and the city was undefended. Berserkers aren't heavy infantry, they're more like Medieval Special Forces.

I think it's quite reasonable to declare war in order to get access to iron. But without iron it's just too difficult to take a city from a neighbour just with heavy chariot. Horseman is ok though. Swordman rush is sometimes limited by the lack of upgrading gold, too.

That +7 promotion only gives its bonus when you attack, not when you are defending against a melee or ranged attack.

Really？ I know there are some poromotion only work when they are suffering from range attack. But I don't know if there are other promotion that only work when are attacking others?

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Would be nice if berzerkers got the movement bonus in neutral territory as well. Because parking them in enemy territory is quite dangerous. As mentioned above, borders usually aren't that far out making you vulnerable to getting hit by crossbowman. I know I was having a problem with them in the Viking civ of the week on the TSL Europe map against Polish crossbowman.

I think the design of 4 movement in enemy territory is that we may use berserker to move 1 tile and then pilliage it every turn. Most of the time we don't need to move far in enemy territory and get limitied by ZOC also. So maybe Berserker is in fact a sudden strike and grabbing unit. But not conquering others.