poisoned water supply must be fixed!!!

[MisterBarca]

This is the 2nd straight expansion that the devs have messed up a Marathon setting game feature.

It really doesn't say well for them. Shame on them.

 

[Random Oracle]

This is the 2nd straight expansion that the devs have messed up a Marathon setting game feature.

It really doesn't say well for them. Shame on them.

It does look like they playtest marathon (and epic?) less than other speeds which is understandable to some extent as playing a game on marathon takes a lot longer of a tester's time than a game on normal. Yes, this is a serious bug and it should be corrected quickly, but this still looks like perhaps the best expansion I have ever seen.

 

[vilemerchant]

It does look like they playtest marathon (and epic?) less than other speeds which is understandable to some extent as playing a game on marathon takes a lot longer of a tester's time than a game on normal. Yes, this is a serious bug and it should be corrected quickly, but this still looks like perhaps the best expansion I have ever seen.

It's definitely an awesome expansion, just that it has some really obvious (and almost game-breaking) bugs. They're also very easy to fix, so why don't they release a patch RIGHT NOW and be done with it?

 

[Random Oracle]

It's definitely an awesome expansion, just that it has some really obvious (and almost game-breaking) bugs. They're also very easy to fix, so why don't they release a patch RIGHT NOW and be done with it?

They're very easy to fix, but fix to what? What are the right values that are perfectly balanced at all speeds? They have to spend at least a little time to figure it out, otherwise they'll have to change it again.

But yes, I think they should make this a priority.

 

[neviden]

I have never changed anything in programming the game but I play exclusively at marathon speeds and would like to fix this problem (-24 health turn 1???) What exactly will this change do at marathon speed?

Change it to 6 health per 6 turns. Or if you like it you can change it to "3" and get 9 health per 9 turns (i think).

The same thing with unhappines.. if you play marathon, then change:
<iCityUnhappinessCounter>8</iCityUnhappinessCounter>
To:
<iCityUnhappinessCounter>2</iCityUnhappinessCounter>

That should still make it painfull, but not WMD painfull..

 

[doronron]

I think before I start messing with the sliding scale factor, I'll up the cost or increase the difficulty of completing the mission.

 

[neviden]

Like I said.. it's only &#8220;first band aid&#8221; patch, until the proper patch comes along. It changes only the thing that is (unintentionally) broken at marathon. So that anyone could play it like they would play at normal speed until it is officially fixed.

My guess is that they never played marathon games, since they can literally take days to complete. They could of course find lots of free eager players for &#8220;final beta&#8221; to catch those bugs, but how do they find beta testers that will keep their mouths closed?

They simply ship it out as tested as could be done, and rush patches to fix bugs later..

 

[Innawerkz]

To state it clearly again.... difficulty setting has nothing to do with it.... it is the game speed setting that causes the fault.

On Marathon speed, the duration is so greatly magnified that any size (AI) city is going to be reduced to 1 from a single mission.

To clarify for myself (and perhaps others): My undertsanding is, at Marathon speed, it isn't necessarily the duration but the modifier that is the problem. That it should be -8 / for 24 turns, not the current -24 for 24 turns.

The problem lies in having the effect 'tick' down appropriately. If Normal loses 1 / per turn (from the original -8), Marathon should lose 1 / per 3 turns.

Most seem to agree that it is the 'correct' setting. Since the turns are scaled longer, the duration should be scaled longer.

 

[MisterBarca]

It does look like they playtest marathon (and epic?) less than other speeds which is understandable to some extent as playing a game on marathon takes a lot longer of a tester's time than a game on normal. Yes, this is a serious bug and it should be corrected quickly, but this still looks like perhaps the best expansion I have ever seen.

Random Oracle,

In other posts, I have said that this is perhaps the best expansion I have ever seen as well. So no disagreement there.

But again, to register our agreement, these bugs are serious, and I would add game-breaking. No matter how well the rest of the expansion shapes up to be, these bugs/oversights are simply inexcusable--and I would almost say unconscionable. And the fact that Firaxis has still not addressed it says volumes about their concern (or the lack thereof) for gamers.

 

[madscientist]

Change it to 6 health per 6 turns. Or if you like it you can change it to "3" and get 9 health per 9 turns (i think).

The same thing with unhappines.. if you play marathon, then change:
<iCityUnhappinessCounter>8</iCityUnhappinessCounter>
To:
<iCityUnhappinessCounter>2</iCityUnhappinessCounter>

That should still make it painfull, but not WMD painfull..

Thankyou. I would prefer 8 unhealthy/unhappy or 24 turns (losing 1 per 3 turns) but will try this fix. 9 unhealty for 9 turns on marathon is much better and I cannot nuke Paris or London at 1 AD. Never tried to change the programming (I didn't realize it was that easy) but will try tonight.

 

[Valadon]

I am confused (a not unusual state). Can't you use your own spies to kill enemy spies before they do so much poisoning? Why would you let 10 turns or more pass without attacking the enemy spies? Isn't there a 'kill all foreign spies within a certain radius' mission for your own spies?

 

[Ihmemies]

I am confused (a not unusual state). Can't you use your own spies to kill enemy spies before they do so much poisoning? Why would you let 10 turns or more pass without attacking the enemy spies? Isn't there a 'kill all foreign spies within a certain radius' mission for your own spies?

No. They just have a chance to get caught, and if the enemy has more espionage points than you, the chance is lower Also when the spy poisons wells/angers citizens, it's done, and only thing which mends it is time.

 

[homan1983]

I am confused (a not unusual state). Can't you use your own spies to kill enemy spies before they do so much poisoning? Why would you let 10 turns or more pass without attacking the enemy spies? Isn't there a 'kill all foreign spies within a certain radius' mission for your own spies?

No because they don't know where al the foreign spies are.

Foreign spies can sometimes be caught whilst just browsing around the target civ, but most are caught in the act of espionage.

 

[madscientist]

Change it to 6 health per 6 turns. Or if you like it you can change it to "3" and get 9 health per 9 turns (i think).

The same thing with unhappines.. if you play marathon, then change:
<iCityUnhappinessCounter>8</iCityUnhappinessCounter>
To:
<iCityUnhappinessCounter>2</iCityUnhappinessCounter>

That should still make it painfull, but not WMD painfull..

I found the file last night, double clicked on it and it opened in explorer. Found the lines of interest but could not change the numbers. Could not get the cursor after/before the number to change

I am obviously missing something. How does one do this. I am no programmer but a computer user, can I do this?

 

[doronron]

madscientist - open the XML file in notepad. You can edit it there, and the updated file will work.

 

[phungus420]

I found the file last night, double clicked on it and it opened in explorer. Found the lines of interest but could not change the numbers. Could not get the cursor after/before the number to change

I am obviously missing something. How does one do this. I am no programmer but a computer user, can I do this?

Right Click

Select "Open With"
Open with Note pad.
You can now edit the file.

Also don't edit the original file. Copy it, and place the copy you intend to mess with in the corresponding folder in your Custom's Assets folder. That's in your My Documents Directory, rather then program files. The game will then use this file (and any other tweaks you make to the game in corresponding files) when loading, but you save the original in case you make a mistake, or want to play multiplayer. Just make sure you place the file in the corresponding directory in your custom assets folder. So if the file you're altering is C:\Program Files\Fireaxis\Beyond The Sword\Assets\XML\foldername\file Then copy the file and place it so that the file you edit goes in C:\My Documents\Games\Fireaxis\Beyond the Sword\Custom Assets\XML\foldername\file

Welcome to modding CIV. You'll find you can easily change alot of things this way, and if you screw up, it's so easy to fix, you just delete the file in your custom assets folder, and the game will use your original in the Program Files directory.

 

[madscientist]

Right Click

Select "Open With"
Open with Note pad.
You can now edit the file.

Also don't edit the original file. Copy it, and place the copy you intend to mess with in the corresponding folder in your Custom's Assets folder. That's in your My Documents Directory, rather then program files. The game will then use this file (and any other tweaks you make to the game in corresponding files) when loading, but you save the original in case you make a mistake, or want to play multiplayer. Just make sure you place the file in the corresponding directory in your custom assets folder. So if the file you're altering is C:\Program Files\Fireaxis\Beyond The Sword\Assets\XML\foldername\file Then copy the file and place it so that the file you edit goes in C:\My Documents\Games\Fireaxis\Beyond the Sword\Custom Assets\XML\foldername\file

Welcome to modding CIV. You'll find you can easily change alot of things this way, and if you screw up, it's so easy to fix, you just delete the file in your custom assets folder, and the game will use your original in the Program Files directory.

Outstanding, thanks!!! So in theory I could change the cost of something like stonehenge to say 10 hammers while I play Ramses II as the only industriouse civ? Sweet.

 

[phungus420]

Outstanding, thanks!!! So in theory I could change the cost of something like stonehenge to say 10 hammers while I play Ramses II as the only industriouse civ? Sweet.

Yep anything in the ...\Assets\XML\... folder can be moded this way. This is one of the main reasons CIV is touted for it's modibility.

 

[gregh87]

I don't think that poison water and foment unhappiness are too overpowing at epic speed. I poisoned AND fomented unhappiness Portugal's capital, at size 23, at the same time, and it only fell to size 19. Maybe it screwed up his economy, I don't know-he may have had to fire a ton of specialists.

 

[dh_epic]

This is the 2nd straight expansion that the devs have messed up a Marathon setting game feature.

Marathon was never really a feature of Civilization 4. It was only added in a patch, not the main release. It's not surprising that it receives so little attention.

I know Firaxis reads these forums, though, and I think it would be lame if no one in their testing team catches marathon eventually. (I dunno. Maybe, they added the poison water supply mission at the last minute, and people tested it on normal and epic, but not marathon, and now they're kicking themselves in the ass? That's giving them the benefit of the doubt.) I've seen complaints about poison water supply around a lot, so I think Firaxis will catch on soon enough!

But honestly... the only way to get a truly good "Marathon" speed is to rely on modders. Firaxis seems primarily concerned with streamlining the game, to find the sweet spot between fast MP games and deeper SP games.