Poland is too strong

[liv]

Nothing sucks more than trying to go religion from turn 1 only to have Russia next door and see a bunch of missionaries/apostles on your doorstep before you can even get one apostle built

Then you have to save your prophet go to war and eliminate Russia and then use it.

 

[The_Quasar]

Then you have to save your prophet go to war and eliminate Russia and then use it.

That's ok on lower levels, but won't work on the higher ones when, at that stage, you're well behind the others because of their assisted starts.
I've even had my religion eradicated before I've been able to build an apostle/missionary before now.

 

[liv]

That's ok on lower levels, but won't work on the higher ones when, at that stage, you're well behind the others because of their assisted starts.
I've even had my religion eradicated before I've been able to build an apostle/missionary before now.

I think it is the opposite. It will work better on higher levels because the AI builds more holy sites. You can win a religious victory with this approach.
I agree that if you tried for religion and failed on deity you are behind but what choice do you have? AI is going to overrun you with religious units and then you are screwed if you use it. May as well save it at that point

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

That's ok on lower levels, but won't work on the higher ones when, at that stage, you're well behind the others because of their assisted starts.
I've even had my religion eradicated before I've been able to build an apostle/missionary before now.

You don't need a religion to accumulate Faith. Save your Prophet until you've built up enough Faith to buy a wolf pack of 3 to 4 Apostles. Any of your cities with a Holy Site will auto convert to your new religion.

Then buy your wolf pack, and wait for the AI religious units to come. If you kill them just inside your borders, you'll likely flip a few AI cities while defending. When they stop sending units at you, go hunting for them in their territory. Surround their closest Holy Site with Apostles and kill each defender they raise, until that city converts to your religion. Then move to the next city. If any of their cities don't convert from the combat and subsequent pressure, you can spend a couple of Missionary charges to speed up finishing the job, but basically you can convert the whole world with a single group of 4 Apostles and a stream of Gurus to keep them healed. It'll be faster with two or three groups, of course.

 

[h0nk0815]

How many faith do do you need for 4 apostles on on standard speed?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

How many faith do do you need for 4 apostles on on standard speed?

About 1,500 if you're in Theocracy.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

You don't have to worry about Polish missionaries if you burn their civilization to the ground.

Total annihilation is a great way to get a civ to stop messing with you.

 

[Bitterman]

I don't think Poland is that good. They have decent bonuses but they don't stack that much.

Their religious ability doesn't do much without Reliquaries belief. Their UB is not bad but again not enough to justify the pick. Their cultural bombs are fun to use but not that useful. Only the policy slot and the UU are interesting but all in all they lack that push to be a strong civ in imo.

Is one of those civs that seems to gravitate around religion but has not many religious bonuses to achieve such victory and the other bonuses just don't feel strong enough. Religious civs in general are a little bit weak, but the most fun to use for me.

 

[UWHabs]

I don't think Poland is that good. They have decent bonuses but they don't stack that much.

Their religious ability doesn't do much without Reliquaries belief. Their UB is not bad but again not enough to justify the pick. Their cultural bombs are fun to use but not that useful. Only the policy slot and the UU are interesting but all in all they lack that push to be a strong civ in imo.

Is one of those civs that seems to gravitate around religion but has not many religious bonuses to achieve such victory and the other bonuses just don't feel strong enough. Religious civs in general are a little bit weak, but the most fun to use for me.

Just finished a game with them, and I'd agree. Religious benefits, but not much bonus to get a religion (wildcard slot is a slight boost since you can run the prophet card). Relic bonuses, but no bonus way to get relics. The UB has a nice boost, and the UU is pretty sweet. But they're a bit all over the place in the bonuses.

 

[acluewithout]

I don’t play Poland, so I may be missing the point, but they seem decently powerful to me. Not OP, just solid.

Civs that get religious bonuses (not just faith bonuses) always get at least an indirect bonus to getting a religion, because their bonuses make investing in a great prophet more worthwhile and therefore better value. Poland gets three boosts here: the culture bomb and relics thing; the wild card slot (which directly makes it easier to get a religion); and the district bonus for Holy Sites, which makes Holy Sites more valuable (making them a better investment).

To me, their HS adjacency and Unique Market just scream city centre commercial hub holy site triangles, maybe putting down an encampment or fort at the edge of disputed borders just to mess with opponents.

All that extra faith - from Holy Sites, Relics and being able to run religious cards in their wild card slots - we’ll, I would have thought that would significantly boost their strength for religious victories. I’d have thought they’d also be good for faith / religion based dom, particularly using defender of the faith and their conversion ability.

 

[NukeAJS]

Poland definitely isn't OPed unlike Civ5. They have a a solid tier 2 civ imo.

If you want to be guaranteed a religion, play Arabia. When the second to last prophet spawns, they immediately get the last prophet.

 

[liv]

don’t play Poland, so I may be missing the point, but they seem decently powerful to me

Poland in a nutshell. Always looks good on paper....

 

[acluewithout]

Poland in a nutshell. Always looks good on paper....

Fair call.

(Also, I think this is actually Poland in a nutshell.)