Poll about changing the rules!

[el_kalkylus]

The rule about food caravan trick (FCT) is here: http://www.eqforge.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27238

Here's a more detailed explanation: http://www.eqforge.com/showthread.php?postid=389478#post389478

The question is, should we allow the rule, change it, or remove it?

 

[el_kalkylus]

I have just read through all of the tips in the "rules-thread", and saw that you can make a city increase two sizes in one turn with the use of FCT and WLTPD. But still, it takes time and preparation to increase size with food caravans/food freights (FC/FF), not to mention production and money. It is an investment to make your population increase faster, and you will lose production (and money) while you increase the population with FC/FF. As long as you don't misuse FC/FF and make unnatural large cities I think think this trick should be allowed. It's not a bug IMO.

 

[el_kalkylus]

Bump.

What makes the FCT so powerful that we have to disallow it?

Celebration in republic or democracy is a much faster and cheaper way to increase population.

 

[Smash]

The main reason was to prevent unnatural growth to obscene city sizes like size 70 or size 100.

Growing to natural sizes seems fine but you end up with a very grey area in the rules which could only lead to more problems.

 

[el_kalkylus]

How could it lead to problems? We just say that it's unallowed with unnatural city sizes.

 

[Smash]

well....I spose you could grow a city to say size 25 well before you have improved the surrounding terrain...kinduva stretch isn't it? now that I think about it,maybe there would be no problem.

I still don't see a problem as food caravans are not the most efficient technique.I do beleive it was intended,although not to size 99 etc.Otherwise,WTH are food caravans for!?

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by Smash
well....I spose you could grow a city to say size 25 well before you have improved the surrounding terrain...kinduva stretch isn't it? now that I think about it,maybe there would be no problem.

Your example would not be allowed since you would get an unnatural city size then. That city would not have enough food to increase by itself if the surrounding terrain wasn't improved (in most cases).

I agree with you. Why use food caravans at all if it isn't allowed to only fill the food box in a city?

 

[Boli]

I only use FC/FF to stop my cities starving... i.e. sometimes you end up with an odd number of food and inevitably the city is going to be starving (abit very slowly)... I just make a food trade between two of these cities (or send them all to the capital) to make all the food even. This is mainly to stop those annoying messages about starving population.

The rule is fine in my opinion, apart from the fact of unatural cities sizes. i.e. if I were to send off of my "odd cities" surplus food (1 route to make the food prod. even) to the capital (or SSC) then if I send 50+ food or so I will end up with an unatural city size.

 

[ElephantU]

What is the minimum size you would consider "un-natural"?

 

[LordValuna]

Originally posted by el_kalkylus

Your example would not be allowed since you would get an unnatural city size then. That city would not have enough food to increase by itself if the surrounding terrain wasn't improved (in most cases).

I agree with you. Why use food caravans at all if it isn't allowed to only fill the food box in a city?

I've mostly used food caravans when surrounding terrain couldnt support and were going to experience famine. This hasnt been a problem in GotM's.

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by ElephantU
What is the minimum size you would consider "un-natural"?

When the city doesn't have enough food/turn to naturally increase by itself.

 

[Ace]

You all are missing the point. In GOTMs, speed is the essence of victory. Using the FCT to build cities takes mucho time. And is a vast waste of production. The real use for Food caravans is to allow you to build a city in a very poor site to take advantage of a special resource or to act as a choke point. Occasionally you will want a city that cannot grow/support itself without help, and thats where the food caravan is needed. This actually makes the FCT counter-productive in a GOTM game.

The other use of it is to move shields between cities, either to build wonders (using food does not tie up product that could be used for trade routes, especially if you stockpile caravans to rush a wonder when it becomes available), or by disbanding it in a city for starter shields. Both of which are wasteful uses, caravans real use is to establish trade routes and generate bonus' of coins and beakers.

 

[el_kalkylus]

Originally posted by Ace
You all are missing the point. In GOTMs, speed is the essence of victory. Using the FCT to build cities takes mucho time. And is a vast waste of production. The real use for Food caravans is to allow you to build a city in a very poor site to take advantage of a special resource or to act as a choke point. Occasionally you will want a city that cannot grow/support itself without help, and thats where the food caravan is needed. This actually makes the FCT counter-productive in a GOTM game.

The other use of it is to move shields between cities, either to build wonders (using food does not tie up product that could be used for trade routes, especially if you stockpile caravans to rush a wonder when it becomes available), or by disbanding it in a city for starter shields. Both of which are wasteful uses, caravans real use is to establish trade routes and generate bonus' of coins and beakers.

Then what's the harm in the FCT for those that wants to use it?

 

[GaryNemo]

The Duke is going to allow your game, and the vote is against FCT for all others and future games. Why not put some thought in the Civ2 Democracy Game? Incredible excitement there, you know. Vikings dead, all plans up in the air. More Engineers? New Democracy in 3 years, NOW. Favored cities? Which wonders? Settler new lands? War plans on the Spanish? Persians, too? Are we wearing out our welcome with the Indians? They have worn out their welcome with me, I can say that. Jayne moves Wednesday morning.