[GS] [POLL] most urgent / important mechanics that need to be patched

[acluewithout]

Are we talking like a 30 day patch or the next “big” patch?

Well, I’m probably asking for too much. And being repetitive. But here’s my list...

30 days.

• I guess, all the stuff other people are asking for? So, nerf pillaging, fix barb spawn, nerf Hungary and the Maori?

• Get rid of Barbarian GDRs. (Or, you know, replace them with actual Kaiju? )

• Naval Units can’t move through mountain tunnels.

• Military Engineers can build roads without spending charges (maybe requires one iron?) and can speed up building flood barriers and aqueducts.

• Units require one resource to heal.

• Stop having duplicate Eleanors in games.

• Buff Norway. But properly this time.

• Give Georgia a bonus to building walls.

• Rework Hoplites so they’re not so tedious and underwhelming (lose the +10 for being adjacent to another Hopelite, and give them +10 in friendly territory or in the borders of a City State; or give them the same buff as Samurai).

• Buff China’s Great Wall (e.g. additional culture if city has a Wonder) and France’s Cheteau (additional culture and or gold during Golden Ages)

• Fix the Royal Navy Dockyard Movement bonus (or give Units built or upgraded in a RND +1 Movement - the later would work better with the Sea Dog) and buff the RND slighty (e.g. production bonus building or buying Naval or Land Melee units if RND is in a city on a foreign continent). RNDs are not strong enough, particularly for Eleanor and certainly not compared to the Cothon.

• Give the IZ adjacency bonus to Factories, not Coal Power Plants. This is just so, so obvious. Come on FXS - just do it!

• Buff the IZ (eg additional +1 adjacency for strategic resources), and slightly buff the Workshop (eg +1 housing and or +1 food from camps).

• Give Light Cav a -17 v Cities, reduce the effectiveness of Rams (and maybe make their effectiveness something you can mod), and give Seige Units +10 defence v ranged if they haven’t moved that turn.

• Forts increase strategic resource capacity by +2. Forts can’t be adjacent to each other or an encampment.

• Shipyards and Seaports increase resource storage capacity by +5 each, to be at least comparable to Encampments.

• Buff Aerodromes (+%tourism) and make Spaceports require power.

• Remove “recruit partisans” Mechanic. We don’t need another reason to avoid building Neighbourhoods.

Next “big” patch.

• Rework the second part of World Congress votes (the bit where you target a specific Civ or district or resource or whatever). I think just get rid of them, but whatever works really.

• Have resolutions which effect groups of Luxuries: like endangered animals (ivory, furs, whales), or conflict precious stones (diamonds, jade, amber). So, whether you vote for them or not becomes very situational.

• Introduce new Diplomatic Policy Cards. The first gives Diplomatic Favour for Colonial Cities (Commonwealth of Nations). The second gives Diplomatic Favour for having Nukes (Non-Proliferation Treaty). The first is a needed buff to colonising Civs like Spain and England; the second is just fun and wonderfully cynical.

• Introduce Emergencies triggered by Civs getting close to either Science or Cultural Victories.

• Earn +1 Diplomatic Victory Points for being the first at key things - specifically, moon landing, colonising mars, building a GDR.

• Get +1 Victory Point if you currently have the highest population city (minimum 20), the highest tourism (minimum X), or the most followers of your religion (minimum X). You lose the points if someone overtakes you on these (a bit like “The Longest Road” Card in Catan). These additional DV points in this bullet point and the one before are needed to make it easier (faster, less boring) to win Diplomatic Victories.

• Buff Tier 3 Buldings by giving them a small buff to flat yields when powered, by improving the existing Policy Cards that work with Tier 3 Buildings (eg Third Alternative), and by having some new policy cards that give them strong situational bonuses (eg Academic Open Access - Research Labs boost projects and also provide diplomatic favour; or Radio Europe - your Broadcast Towers provide +% tourism and +loyalty).

• Include a Tech Hub building as an alternate Tier 3 building for the IZ, that really boosts production when powered (maybe allows for overlapping IZ auras instead of via Magnus). You can just recycle the Research Lab model. You might want to make this building a prerequisite for building the GDR.

• Either substantially buff the additional power yields from Workshop of the World, or rework that element of the UA to focus more on substantially buffing powered Factories but at the cost of additional CO2 emissions.

• Nerf how much easy culture and science there is in the game, and maybe nerf the campus specifically (eg maybe maintenance costs increase with Era, or number of campuses has a soft cap).

• Read all of @Sostratus ’s posts about unit costs v power.

• Give Information Era Military Units bonuses in the Future Tech tree (not just the GDR). So, e.g., Mechanised Infantry and Aircraft would also get additional movement via Cybernetics; or Mech Infantry and Tanks get a free promotion when you research Predictive Systems.

• (I’d also like to see the Apostolic Palace and UN Building brought back as Wonders, both giving diplomatic favour and victory points, but that’s probably a bit much for a patch.)

This is quite a long list, I know. And maybe this many changes isn’t realistic. My 30 days is very aggressive - although, they’re all fairly small changes.

But, genuinely, I think if we got the above changes, Gathering Storm would have totally nailed it.

Also. I don’t think I quite understood the OP’s voting system.

[edit: a few additional comments. Also, I’m happy with where Oil is unlocked relative to Infantry, so deleted comment suggesting otherwise. I also like that Infantry requires oil - it’s a good change.]

 

[bengalryan9]

Just one man's opinion here, but making repairs cost builder charges would be awful.

 

[Leucarum]

The diplomatic victory needs to be overhauled. The amount of self-sabotage needed to not win another victory type is crazy...

Probably adding more opportunities to score victory points is the way to go. Done right it could also double as an indirect buff to Canada which kinda needs a bit of help right now.

 

[kaspergm]

Here are my votes:

Nerf pillaging +1
Nerf Hungary 0
AI taking back suzerainty of levied CS ?
Bigger climate impact +1
Slower climate change +2
Repairing units costs Ressources +1
Units cost several types of ressources +1
Barbs spawning less chaotic +1
Techs/ Civics progressing slower related to production +1
Trade Ressources /turn +1
Revamp WC votes system +2
Faster diplomatic victory +1
Nerf Rock Bands +1
Nerf / not adjacent Seasteads +1
Add production per citizen +1
Workshops AoE +2
Railroads and roads look 0
Balance civs 0
Battle Ram obsolete after medieval +1
Air units staying in aerodrome of taken cities +1
Fix Unability to use canals to go into enemy territory 0
Builders use charge to repair -1
CS placement +1
Friends / ally can't attack suzerained CS +2
Option to click to add to building queue +2
Ability to slow down culture victory 0

 

[The googles do nothing]

First of all, Firaxis if you are reading this, and i know you are ha ha, Gathering Storm is great. A great success although perhaps a qualified one.

Second it sounds like Diplomatic Victory is too hard to get. I haven't got one myself but wiser players then me say so. Perhaps this is intentional. If this is the case just buff Canada. If not buff it in general.

Third, there are some parts of the game that really need to be customizable that (I don't think) modders can do.
Barbs spawning less chaotic +3. Give me a game configuration option. I personally would turn it up.
Bigger climate impact +3. Again, a slider.

 

[blackcatatonic]

This might sound petty and it probably is but I would really like them to change the name of the achievement for winning a game as Sweden. Even as someone who is neither Swedish nor Norwegian it's so tone deaf, and their response was frankly a bit on the crass side. I like the idea of playing as Sweden but I haven't yet as it's somewhat off-putting.

It's a pretty simple change to make and I can't understand why they're being so pig-headed about it.

 

[Infixo]

Can you please add a normal poll to the thread?

 

[RusticBob]

I have been playing Civ since III. Loved IV, hated V. Just got back into it again after a long hiatis. GS adding the climate change is a nice add. However, I think it get's to flooding much too quickly. It should first show up as air polution in the cities and flounder growth and happiness. The Melting Ice caps would not show up until much later in the evolution of the CIV depending on wether or not something is done to slow it or prevent it. As it is right now before you can work to prevent it it is too late and you lose everything you worked for in the early game.

The WC vote system stinks.
The cities bail on you due to influence way too fast. Before you have a chence to do anything about it.
I miss unit stacking. LIke in IV. Maybe limit the number of units that can be in a stack IV was silly as the AI would have 50 units stacked.

Otherwise I love this version. Plays much better than V. Still need to play more to understand the differences between the Civs and more of the mechanics.

My 2 penney's worth...

 

[Sostratus]

replace them with actual Kaiju?

They could just import their graphics for Beyond Earth's Xeno Titan:

Spoiler :

Modders plz

 

[CPWimmer]

Faster diplomatic victory (ex: level 2+ allies shouldn't vote against you) +2
Overhaul the Build queue (ex: open by default, allow dependent items in queue) +2

Bigger climate impact +1
Barbs spawning less chaotic +1
Revamp WC votes system +1
Railroads and roads look +1
Infantry shouldn't cost Oil +1
Buff Tier 3 Buildings +1
Make Spaceports require power +1

Builders use charge to repair -1
Nerf Hungary -1
Nerf Maori -1
Balance Civs -1

 

[Disgustipated]

Still not sure about your voting system, I take it + votes mean they need to be patched and - votes mean I'm okay with the mechanic?

Nerf pillaging +2 (these are my votes, I'm not totaling them).
Nerf Hungary 0
AI taking back suzerainty of levied CS 0
Bigger climate impact 0
Slower climate change 0
Repairing units costs Ressources -1 - unnecessary complication
Units cost several types of ressources -1 unnecessary complication, too many units require resources already (like infantry).
Barbs spawning less chaotic +2 just some consistency is all I'm looking for
Techs/ Civics progressing slower related to production +1
Trade Resources /turn -1 don't care about this
Revamp WC votes system 0 indifferent
Faster diplomatic victory +1
Nerf Rock Bands -1 they are fine as is, though maybe take away the choose your promotion card
Nerf / not adjacent Seasteads +1
Add production per citizen -1, no, IZ's are what should be fixed
Workshops AoE +1
Railroads and roads look +2
Balance civs +1
Battle Ram obsolete after medieval +2
Air units staying in aerodrome of taken cities +2
Fix Unability to use canals to go into enemy territory -1
Builders use charge to repair -1, ridiculous to even consider this
CS placement +1 I don't mind small groups, makes sense (think Italy for many years) in some cases, but sometimes you can't ever meet them
Friends / ally can't attack suzerained CS +2
Option to click to add to building queue +1
Ability to slow down culture victory +1

 

[Onii-chan]

How about reducing the production cost increase scaling for Flood Barriers with rising sea levels? As is right now you frequently don't get to ever build any because their cost goes up by more per turn then a city actually has production per turn. As a result they'll end up costing more than late-game wonders and won't be finished until your whole coastline is submerged already. If you can't get 'em up before global warming starts kicking in there's no point even bothering trying to build any (and they can only be purchased by Valletta's Suzerain bonus)

 

[WillowBrook]

One more urgent fix:
- you shouldn't be able to get two Eleanor in the game if "No duplicate leaders" is checked
(Thanks to acluewithout for the reminder)

 

[Vandlys]

Some more things:

1 ) Something that disturbes me greatly but I have never seen anyone complain about before:
The (barbarian) attack drum sound is counted as "music". So not only does the actual music drop in volume, but the SFX plays loudly. If you, like me, play with music louder than everything else, it sometimes just gives you a head ache. It's horrible. So, in short: fix attack to separate volume level (sound effects is perfect), not music.

2 ) Leader/Civ exclusion. While selecting random Civs/leaders, exclude these leaders.

3) A proper world builder is still high priority on my wishlist.

This might sound petty and it probably is but I would really like them to change the name of the achievement for winning a game as Sweden. Even as someone who is neither Swedish nor Norwegian it's so tone deaf, and their response was frankly a bit on the crass side. I like the idea of playing as Sweden but I haven't yet as it's somewhat off-putting.

It's a pretty simple change to make and I can't understand why they're being so pig-headed about it.

I completely relate to this. I'm neither Norwegian nor Swedish, but I find it extremely odd. I want to bet that if this were a similar case but with Cree or Maori, the response would have been entirely apologetic and the fix would have been here by now.

It's pretty easy to make a canal unusable by scuttling ships and demolishing bridges that go over it. Egypt blocked the Suez Canal that way during the Six-day war.

1) I'm not talking about real life. This is a game, so gameplay needs to be considered. My troops also don't get stuck in a partially destroyed city even though that's entirely possible. Bridges can't be destroyed. Trains are not needed for troops to move on tracks. Tunnels can't be destroyed.
2) The canal wasn't destroyed.
3) It's fine if it's possible in real life, but it's not a gameplay feature, so why would I need to anticipate it in game?

 

[Cagarustus]

I think a lot of the suggestions made in this thread are good but I don’t think many of them will be considered for the main reason that 2k’s main goal is to appeal to casual gamers and to reduce the ‘grind’ that many people experience.

1) tech and civic progression: slowing down the progression would put casual gamers off especially with the new GS expansion which focuses on the late game as it would increase the grind.

What I’ve starting doing is commencing a game in a later era, like medieval, renaissance or industrial era. I’ve actually found this to be more fun with the latest expansion and it reduces the grind.

2) nerfing Hungary: hungary provides a means by which the casual gamer can overcome frustration in the domination game. Using minimal strategy it removes the frustration of having to manage resources and upgrade costs.

Don’t forget that it appears to me anyhow that many of the civilisation designs in GS are designed to negate the frustrations with Civ 6. For eg, if you have producing things and waiting, play Mali and instantly buy things.

3) reducing production costs: doing this would give the AI at higher levels too much of an advantage. It seems to me that the production costs are calculated based on the AI’s advantages at higher levels.

 

[Sostratus]

It seems to me that the production costs are calculated based on the AI’s advantages at higher levels.

Production costs were originally set based on what column of the tech tree something unlocks in. This is why a library costs 80 but a workshop costs 175 even though both provide +2; and of course the rate of increase is tied to the same kind of 10x scaling that districts, units, and chops all follow as you go along. They've just never done a balance pass on it. When people complained on release about district build time int eh late game, they cut the cost by a flat 10%. (Which is why districts now cost base 54, they used to be 60.)
This really didn't address the issue at all, though. They should have adjusted the scaling so as you advance past the industrial era (when your production peaks @ industrialization) costs don't just keep going up, up, up. The scaling says that the modern, atomic, and info eras have just as much cost inflation as going through the ancient, classical and medieval eras (when you're rapidly growing.)

I think people really are less concerned with early game costs - when the AI bonus is most potent - and more about the later game costs that just keep going up with no end in sight.

 

[CPWimmer]

Voting on a few more I since I last voted.

Change the name of the achievement for winning a game as SWEDEN +2
ME should be able to speed up Flood Barriers and aqueducts +1
Buff France's Château +1

 

[Troy Bruckner]

Firaxis just fixed pillaging and builders get too expensive as is to have them burning charges on repairs.

Fixed pillaging? I tested it out yesterday and I finished the tech tree on year 1200 BC.

 

[The googles do nothing]

I would prefer that they make scaling be mod-able rather then have it 'fixed'.

 

[Sostratus]

I would prefer that they make scaling be mod-able rather then have it 'fixed'.

Units are generally pretty okay IMO given how their strength scales.
Buildings would need to be manually adjusted because they are all over the place.
Districts+Chops use the same modifier which is defined by an equation: Modifier = 1 + 9*(NumTechsResearched/MaxNumTechs). It'll use the higher ratio of your techs or civics. If you change the 9, it'll scale faster or slower. If you change the maximum tech number to something smaller (and put the whole statement inside a max(statement,your_max_modifier) you could make it stop sooner. There's like 59 techs in the game or something, let's say through the industrial era there's 35. You could change it to Modifier = max[6 , 1 + 5*(NumTechsResearched/35)]. and it would roughly scale the same as now but it would stop at the end of the industrial. There's a lot of wiggle room.