Bluemofia
F=ma
Pyramids. The Grainery helps you dominate your continent faster. Sun Tzu's is second, followed by Leo's third. They are all very close though. Hard to decide.
Poll: the pyramids vs Sun Tzus art of war vs Lenardo's WS
- Thread starter Eukaryote
- Start date
Mercade
the Counsellor
Sun Tzu increasing moneyTwonky said:
It generates veteran units and helps healing units faster. That's fighting power, and very useful to have in my view.
Twonky
King
That´s what I wanted to say with it.Own said:
I agree that it is enjoyable to have barrcks in conquered cities, but are they really this helpful?
Those cities are usually highly corrupt, so I probably don´t want to build units there. Fast healing is nice, but often I want to leave units there for 2 or 3 turns to reduce resistance and/or flip risk anyway. And it is not uncommon to capture barracks, too.
So the biggest advantage from Sun Tzu for me is the free maintenance - in other words: money.
Before I get flamed, let me state me the obvious: this opinion is based on my favorite playing style, and your mileage may vary of course.
Pounder
Phaethon was here
I don't build any of them.
BeefBayford
Going Steady
Out of the three I prefer Sun Tzu, mainly to prevent the AI from getting it first.
I find the Pyramids difficult to MM after getting about 10-12 cities, by then I have riots everywhere. They were by far my favourite in Civ2 though!
I find the Pyramids difficult to MM after getting about 10-12 cities, by then I have riots everywhere. They were by far my favourite in Civ2 though!
greekguy
Missed the Boat
Leo's, no question. the amount of gold you can save, is absolutely astounding.
Grohan
Bug-hunter
Pyramids because faster growth is a really useful
Aramazd
Deity
Pyramids is best, but it comes to early to build so I never get it unless I get a SGL. I would say Leo's is next best since rax are cheap to build. If you have all three it is a killer combo.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
Another thing i like to do is pre-build Leos with Sun Tzu.
Pyramids...
I don't build none of those wonders except rare circumstances. but i always declare 1st on AI who owns pyramids and try to capture it as early as i can.
Pyramids promote growth and there is nothing more important in this game than quick growth of your population. and i can always take care about unhapiness issues with luxes, markets and slider.
Leo is second after Pyramids for horse upgrades but it is not as powerful as pyramids.
Sun Tsu isn't that good at all... By the time you have it you already have barracks build in all core cities and barracks are cheap to rush if you need tob uild them on conquered land. I never try to build it but may capture by a chance.
I don't build none of those wonders except rare circumstances. but i always declare 1st on AI who owns pyramids and try to capture it as early as i can.
Pyramids promote growth and there is nothing more important in this game than quick growth of your population. and i can always take care about unhapiness issues with luxes, markets and slider.
Leo is second after Pyramids for horse upgrades but it is not as powerful as pyramids.
Sun Tsu isn't that good at all... By the time you have it you already have barracks build in all core cities and barracks are cheap to rush if you need tob uild them on conquered land. I never try to build it but may capture by a chance.
rschissler
King
The problem with Sun Tzu is that it comes too late, while the Pyramids comes at the right time. You should have no trouble getting it on regent.
It depends on the circumstances of the game, but of the three, I find myself building the Pyramids more often than the others since I'm the builder type. I usually use war only to give myself enough room to build in, and to grab resources I need.
Pyramids are by far the best, but usually too crippling to self-build, even on Regent. They take a top city out of production for 40 turns or more -- that's too long.
In the rare case of an isolated start with plenty of expansion room, they might be worth it anyway (because they will pay off eventually provided you have nothing better to be doing in the meantime).
In the rare case of an isolated start with plenty of expansion room, they might be worth it anyway (because they will pay off eventually provided you have nothing better to be doing in the meantime).
Minesweeper
Chieftain
Leonardo's, because it costs way to much to upgrade my armies at normal price.
Mathias
Mathias
vorlon_mi
Emperor
The map and victory conditions are important.
As someone else pointed out, the Pyramids and SunTzu only apply
to the continent where they are built. I find that after I've invaded
another large island/continent, I really wish I had granaries or barracks
over there, to bulk up my forces and conquer the rest of the other
land mass. It's a lot easier to cash-rush cavs and tanks locally than
to build them in the core, get them onto ships, and drive them to the front.
Leo's allows upgrades *everywhere*, as long as you've got barracks
and the cash
On a pangea map, the above comments don't apply. On archipelago maps,
the "continents" for the Pyramids and SunTzu are even smaller.
It seems to me that the victory condition is also important. If I'm going
for a cultural or diplo victory, I want my cities to grow and spread their
cultural radii -- Leo's or SunTzu would be less useful. If I want a conquest
or domination win, producing all veteran units is doubly good.
Vets are more likely to win battles, and are one step closer to elite,
which leads to great leader formation.
And then there is the aspect of wonder denial -- keeping a rival civ
from getting one of these wonders, and becoming a KAI. From reading
the posts of higher level players, this latter seems to be a low priority, though.
As someone else pointed out, the Pyramids and SunTzu only apply
to the continent where they are built. I find that after I've invaded
another large island/continent, I really wish I had granaries or barracks
over there, to bulk up my forces and conquer the rest of the other
land mass. It's a lot easier to cash-rush cavs and tanks locally than
to build them in the core, get them onto ships, and drive them to the front.
Leo's allows upgrades *everywhere*, as long as you've got barracks
and the cash
On a pangea map, the above comments don't apply. On archipelago maps,
the "continents" for the Pyramids and SunTzu are even smaller.
It seems to me that the victory condition is also important. If I'm going
for a cultural or diplo victory, I want my cities to grow and spread their
cultural radii -- Leo's or SunTzu would be less useful. If I want a conquest
or domination win, producing all veteran units is doubly good.
Vets are more likely to win battles, and are one step closer to elite,
which leads to great leader formation.
And then there is the aspect of wonder denial -- keeping a rival civ
from getting one of these wonders, and becoming a KAI. From reading
the posts of higher level players, this latter seems to be a low priority, though.
mastertyguy
I'm tired!
Pyramids. Certainly.
