Poll: What is the Best Unique Unit?

[bestbrian]

No horses.

Being drowned techwise when researching the required tech and closer AIs have rifles

Um...

A no war game?

Can't think of anything else.

No Iron. Damn, that would suck.

Something like this actually happened to me in this DeGaulle of Spain game. Rexd out to 9 cities. Turtled up. Spread religion/built economy/built wonders. Techd merrily along to Conqs and Cannons so as to spread my benevolent rule, and just as I got Gunpowder I realized that I DIDN'T HAVE HORSES. How freakin' stupid can ya be? Luckily there was a barb city that had them on the other side of the sea. The maintenance was brutal, and I lost them as soon as I Dow'd Boudica and her 5 vassals when the Trade Route was cut, but I was lucky to get them and spam Conqs at all. At that point I probably would have WB'd them into the game, but it would have felt so cheap.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Eh, whatever. I play marathon and if I've put 5 hours into a game and found out that my whole reason for picking the civ I did was gone, I'd totally WB the resource in. What am I playing CIV in the olympics? I guess I'm just not competitive enough.

 

[nanomage]

no horses is bad for persia/mongolia/egypt.
but for spain - hey, what were you doing the first half of game?
yes, you need horse and iron for cuirassiers. but you have the whole half game to get them, not just axerush window to get iron for preats.
drowned techwise? but all you really need as spain is engineering/miltrad+gunpowder. you can beeline like there is no tomorrow.
you should be playing insanely high level for the AI's to have rifling before you get to MilTrad

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

I was just giving you some scenarios. People DO play high levels. I mean... not me , but some people do

 

[nanomage]

i have read a deity walkthrough on this forums.
It was won by cuiraspy warfare against AI's with no rifling.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Okay, I'll stand by my either no horses or no iron. You asked for a scenario and that is one. It is as valid as no iron for Praets since you need 2 resources.

How about a tiny or small single landmass map. You can easily win way before getting anywhere near the techs needed for Conqs.

 

[Iranon]

Being the first to renaissance-era military units should be the norm on any level in an unmodded game if you make it a priority. Cuirassiers can generally be beelined faster than Riflemen, so there should be a reasonable time window.

 

[bestbrian]

no horses is bad for persia/mongolia/egypt.
but for spain - hey, what were you doing the first half of game?
yes, you need horse and iron for cuirassiers. but you have the whole half game to get them, not just axerush window to get iron for preats.
drowned techwise? but all you really need as spain is engineering/miltrad+gunpowder. you can beeline like there is no tomorrow.
you should be playing insanely high level for the AI's to have rifling before you get to MilTrad

Like I said, I was asleep at the switch. Luckily it worked out, but on that map obtaining horses earlier would've been problematic anyway as the nearest source was seven cities deep into Boudicaland.

And Nano's right about the beeline - it isn't very difficult to do, and like I said before, the AI does not value Rifling for some reason. I had a game once where Vicky was a runaway AI, and I was gradually working my way over to her so I could take her down. She went Gunpowder-Science Techs-Assembly Line-Science Techs, and NEVER researched Rifles for Infantry, let alone Redcoats. You would think the AI would be coded to proritize techs that unlock UUs and UBs.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Being the first to renaissance-era military units should be the norm on any level in an unmodded game if you make it a priority. Cuirassiers can generally be beelined faster than Riflemen, so there should be a reasonable time window.

Fair enough. Again, having never played higher than Prince I can only guess at the skill of AI researching on the highest levels. After all, from what I read on the forums, the AI will be at Construction before I even get Iron working.

But I was just trying to provide a scenario where conquistadors couldn't be used. That was one and not having either horses or iron was another. And small or tiny 1 landmass maps was another.

 

[nanomage]

well "small or tiny 1 landmass maps"
are pretty much won after axerush at 2000bc
and about horses/iron requirement - hey, what were you doing the first half of game?
you should either have befriended of exterminated AI that has them

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

Sometimes horses are more rare than you think. I've had games where there wasn't ANY iron on my continent and once I found the others, they were Annoyed (thanks to my religion). It's very possible albeit rare.

 

[bestbrian]

well "small or tiny 1 landmass maps"
are pretty much won after axerush at 2000bc
and about horses/iron requirement - hey, what were you doing the first half of game?
you should either have befriended of exterminated AI that has them

I had elephants which I think sort of screwed up my approach in ensuring that I had horses (like most, I'm not used to having them). Diplo-wise I'd shrined the dominant religion and had most everyone to Friendly-Pleased (after I built the AP I thought I might win Diplo before I even got to use Conqs, but I never got the option for that resolution), however none of the folks with horses would spare them. This game I was just very focused on not over-expanding and advancing my research as quickly as possible; heck I got Conqs-Cannons and won the Lib race all before 1000 AD (which for me on Emperor is outstanding). It was a total brain fart on my behalf, that luckily I caught early enough that it didn't delay my progress and that was rectified relatively painlessly.

If push came to shove I could've just taken them from Boudica with Cannons and War Elephants, but it just wouldn't have been the same.

Not an oversight I'll be making again.

 

[Iranon]

The AI won't have construction by the time you have Iron working... it might or might not be there by the time you have a few cities churning out Praetorians though. It has a good chance of having axes and/or raw numbers to make Praetorian warfare without your own catapults costly though.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

ah... I was told they should have construction by the time I get Iron Working and that they'd have catapults by the time I hooked up my Iron. I don't really care either way as I still classify myself as a casual player (3 games a month max) and will likely never reach those levels.

 

[nanomage]

a bit offtopic well - all our arguement and all this poll is a bit flawed
clearly anough, fast worker outperfoms preats and conqs and quechuas and immortals and redcoats
so instead of wasting our time let's just go and play india

 

[Rusty Edge]

Getting something early and getting something with a long useful life are always important criteria for me.

1) Fast Worker. Useful in peacetime,too!

2) Praet. They tend to dominate.

3) Carrack on a Terra map. Game-breaking.

 

[bestbrian]

Getting something early and getting something with a long useful life are always important criteria for me.

1) Fast Worker. Useful in peacetime,too!

2) Praet. They tend to dominate.

3) Carrack on a Terra map. Game-breaking.

How do you feel the Carrack is game breaking? I haven't played the Portugese, yet, so I don't have any experience with this.

 

[Supr49er]

A Carrack is a Caravel that can carry ANY two units.
SO you can move Settlers to the New World long before Galleons.

 

[Iranon]

He specified Terra maps... a vast time window to claim a whole continent (you can colonise it from optics onwards, the AI needs astronomy) should result in a won position.

However, if you focus on early conquest Terra is essentially a smaller Pangaea... so any unit that allows a strong rush is potentially even more broken there.

 

[bestbrian]

A Carrack is a Caravel that can carry ANY two units.
SO you can move Settlers to the New World long before Galleons.

Yeah, I've never played any of the Terra/New World maps, but I see where that could be a significant early advantage.