PolyCast Episode 294: "Recurring Consumer Activation"

[DanQ]

[img=right]https://www.civfanatics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/polycast_logo.jpg[/img] It's a thing. The two-hundred-and-ninety-fourth episode of PolyCast, "Recurring Consumer Activation", features regular co-hosts Stephanie "Makahlua", Philip "TheMeInTeam" Bellew and "MadDjinn" with returning guests "CanusAlbinus" and "Sedwick". It carries a runtime of 59m59s.

The summary of topics is as follows:

- 01m38s | Senate
The "As and Against" series for Civilization VI civilizations return to highlight both Indonesia and the Khmer (07m41s); then, how the War Weariness mechanic works in (13m09s) and whether or not to harvest or chop in the game (25m37s).
- 31m31s | Forum Talk
First the preview to (recorded for Episode 293), and then the actual, interview with CivVI Lead Designer Ed Beach on what's next for the title (35m43s) followed by unearthening undocumented changes from its Fall 2017 patch (39m12s), why the Domination Victory, well, dominates in multiplayer play (43m12s) and the notion of "recurring consumer spending" in eyed by Civilization VI publisher Take-Two Interactive garners some reaction (48m53s).

- Intro/Outro | Miscellaneous
Introductory appreciations and reading between the lines.

PolyCast is a bi-weekly audio production recording live every other Saturday throughout the year, in an ongoing effort to give the Civilization community an interactive voice; sibling show ModCast focuses on Civ modding, TurnCast on Civ multiplay.

 

[Tatran]

A good (audio) quality episode.
I certainly will keep an eye on the last discussion, because in CivWorld you were able to change the type of weather (rainy, snowy, windy) with civbucks, so the randomness was gone and your units would always get their weather bonus.
And that crap was a huge turn off.

 

[DanQ]

A good (audio) quality episode.

I am curious as to the inclusion of the "(audio)" part of your comment, Tatran: was it that the audio quality was good in particular, or that the quality was only the audio itself? (I hope the former!)

I certainly will keep an eye on the last discussion, because in CivWorld you were able to change the type of weather (rainy, snowy, windy) with civbucks, so the randomness was gone and your units would always get their weather bonus.
And that crap was a huge turn off.

Hopefully when it comes to Civ, any in-game microtransactions do not give players competitive advantages -- only aesthetic ones.

 

[Victoria]

Nice episode. A couple of points

I know I should have put the axes on, as an analyst in real life its a bit poor of me, apologies.

The chop is both worse and better than explained.

The 50% or 100% cards have some use early but not as much as you think.
100% boats ton a coas... not many cities there and do you really want to build the boat for a few turns just to get the overflow... Its really mainly useful to overflow one galley into another to get 2 galleys very fast. It does help Harald with his extra 50% and he does need all that help to be a fair civ.
100% walls or 150% monarchy... you cannot build too many walls in a city so its limited value per city and you have to go off course in the culture tree to get this which can be a pain if your culture in not soaring high (which to be honest is a lot of the time if you are not a restarter)
The 50% settler card is one good overflow card though and that's really how you get those cities out early
Mid-late game there really is no overflow cards that help bar the 50% builder card but it is a strong one as you want more builders and it snowballs.
, but it comes lateish in a science victory game
The late game chop is just ridiculous if you have pushed science or culture. You want Eiffel? just settle a city on tundra with a few trees and 1-2 builders

All in all if you play a chop game you realize that synchronizing overflow charges with districts is not often sensible. but utilizing what you can does help. Worse than that though, building mines and lumber mills is often just not worth it, especially as it increases the price of future builders. The production from a lumber mill may be worth it if you do not need to chop the mill for another 40 turns but the immediate chop from the mill is often what you want in a city to get the campus to uni level. Getting 200+ science by around T100 is ridiculously strong. If you read through the GOTM at the fastest science players they build 1 lumber mill for the eureka or if they build more they certainly are chopped by the end of the game and a T150 science finish often does not provide enough time for things to be of value.
When you can build your spaceport 4 turns before you win a science victory and just chop everything in it does seem a bit crazy.

I am a mechanics person so while I do not necessarily agree with every design in the game I will use what is there to understand the flow better. You gotta use it to be able to comment on it.
While the chop is great for fast science victories as the best example it does work in other games. Chopping in those temples, museums or musketmen just speeds up a long boring game.
If they make the longer game more fun they may want to reduce the strength of district placement/chop value together as these two are designed to work together and use the same formula.
Think about it... late game chops are too strong and late game districts are too expensive... change the common formula!
I do play long immersion games without either chop or district placement also but to be honest they are becoming the minority because this whole area is complex and more entertaining than pressing next.... I mean chopping in the district on turn 60 for 2 chops or waiting until turn 85 for one chop is a good question in interplays with so many other factors like number of envoys of that type.

 

[Tatran]

@DanQ

With audio I meant the connection of the speakers. Sometimes there's too much noise on the line.

 

[DanQ]

Nice episode.

On behalf of myself, and the panelists present, thank you kindly.

I will leave one or more of them to comment on your detailed points in reply; elsewise, as part of the recording of the next episode.

With audio I meant the connection of the speakers. Sometimes there's too much noise on the line.

Ah -- I appreciate the added clarification.

 

[Victoria]

elsewise, as part of the recording of the next episode.

No need. was just clarifying my view... the whole chopping thing really takes quite a bit of using to get used to in VI because of districts and cards.
On the war weariness in cities... I have not done enough testing in this area because it is more difficult to assess and I get sidetracked so easily. The wiki says it is spread out but at 400 I see a near city get a WW point which indicates its more localized. That conflict has caused caution in my words.

 

[kaspergm]

Is it (still) true that you lose all chopped production if nothing is in the queue? I would have sworn otherwise, but might confuse this with something else.

 

[Victoria]

Is it (still) true that you lose all chopped production if nothing is in the queue? I would have sworn otherwise, but might confuse this with something else.

indeedy not, something one forgot to bring up. The thread referred to for the Polycast ( https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/when-would-you-harvest-or-chop.623666 ) has an example of it overflowing.... but if you had no production queue into the next turn I am not sure if you would keep it ... but then you would have to SHIFT+ENTER to do that.

Proof written here When would you harvest or chop?

Some very useful tables in a chop example in my signature

 

[Whiterussian]

I really liked the intro. DanQ get this guy a contract!

 

[Sedwick]

I really liked the intro. DanQ get this guy a contract!

Thanks, I'll be happy to do them that way anytime I'm back on!

Also, I hope my microtransactions rant didn't bore anyone or sound too rehearsed. That topic gave me all kindsa thinks and feels and I wanted to make sure I got them all out.

 

[DanQ]

I really liked the intro. DanQ get this guy a contract!

Sedwick's introduction was certainly a notable step above our usual fare, and much appreciated. It was his second appearance on the show -- the first was a couple of years ago on Episode 241 -- and will certainly be considered for future guest appearances.

 

[CanusAlbinus]

Some of the stuff I said about ongoing customer spending should be taken into a specific context. Specifically, the episode was recorded before the EA Battlefront fiasco, and the kind of stuff they were doing cannot be defended in good faith. I consider myself to be rightly put in my place. Thank you.

 

[Jaybe]

Also, I hope my microtransactions rant didn't bore anyone or sound too rehearsed.

WAS it rehearsed? I had assumed it was not, and that you are just a great (I mean friggen AWESOME!) spontaneous speaker. I actually listened to the whole podcast twice, mostly to hear your speaking!

 

[legalizefreedom]

Great episode! Some thoughts:

If I were you Dan, I would not invite Sedwick back. He is clearly a threat to your sovereignty. What a voice, what cadence, what a personality. Evil that one is. Even though the rant was rehearsed, it was like Cindy Crawford selling body lotion... the lotion doesn't really matter.

I've noticed with Indonesia that you can all but ignore housing. In most cities, I'm seeing more
than double the amount needed mid to late game. And the Jong is a game changer. Very powerful very early.

War Weariness seems fairly light now. I wouldn't be surprised to see it increased slightly if it is ever balanced again.

Love the chop or not chop discussion. Would like to see an in depth discussion about what improvements are best for the various terrain. A little repetition is fine for fundamental things like this, btw. Just because you had a segment on something a year ago shouldn't keep you from re-visiting important topics.

Anyone find it odd (and exploitable) that when using a production policy card, the production generated is increased as opposed to having the cost decrease? Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't seem that difficult to set the equation up correctly...

To contend games haven't increased in price is misleading. The money game companies used to spend on producing physical media, manuals, packaging and shelf space has more than compensated for inflation, yet we see them cutting more corners than ever before. Add to that the massive increase in the gaming industry overall and it's difficult to defend them. Steam levels that a bit since there is downward pricing pressure, but even then you get a lot of sales to people who wouldn't ordinarily buy the game. How many games have you never even installed on Steam? I support the devs who make the games I want to play, but I still recognize the suits don't commit the effort they should, resulting in constant disappointment in games that should be great.

Madd's parting remark, "the countdown has begun". Someone has already been contacted about testing the expansion content...

 

[DanQ]

Great episode!

If I were you Dan, I would not invite Sedwick back. He is clearly a threat to your sovereignty.

, though I doubt he has the time let alone the inclination to manage the non-hosting tasks I have in relation to the show... so, I'm safe. I think.

A little repetition is fine for fundamental things like this... Just because you had a segment on something a year ago should keep you from re-visiting important topics.

We have never not revisited a topic only because it was previously covered on the show. That said, unless there is something new or additional to say on it, any further comment or reference to it otherwise would be within the context of other topics it touches upon.

How many games have you never even installed on Steam?

To the best of my knowledge, I find myself in the minority in my gaming circles by having few games attached to my Steam account to begin with, and moreover having most of them having been installed at some point.

 

[MadDjinn]

Madd's parting remark, "the countdown has begun". Someone has already been contacted about testing the expansion content...

Hints of yesteryears to come will be made known next recording This coming Saturday even.

 

[Sedwick]

If I were you Dan, I would not invite Sedwick back. He is clearly a threat to your sovereignty.

, though I doubt he has the time let alone the inclination to manage the non-hosting tasks I have in relation to the show... so, I'm safe. I think.

That is an accurate statement. Love live DanQ, king of PolyCast!

 

[antimony]

indeedy not, something one forgot to bring up. The thread referred to for the Polycast ( https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/when-would-you-harvest-or-chop.623666 ) has an example of it overflowing.... but if you had no production queue into the next turn I am not sure if you would keep it ... but then you would have to SHIFT+ENTER to do that.

I have an example from 6otM 18 where forgetting to choose production seems to delete overflow:
"I activated Kwolek and Sagan in the spaceport, completing the first project, then proceeded to harvest/chop for the rest. However, after the Moon Landing I chopped without selecting the third project, which unfortunately seemed to cancel the Sagan overflow, and I had to hard-build the 3 Mars parts."
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/6otm-18-after-actions-report.619620/page-2#post-14816510

However that 6otM is two patches old so it might behave differently now.

 

[Victoria]

Oh sure, chop with nothing in the queue and it's lost, thats avoidable.