Poor, poor grand mosque of Djenne....

[Baron2]

This (quite impressive feat of traditionnal engineering) finally got the spotlight....

....and in addition to having a rather meh power, it's now threatened by Malians rebels in the real world. (Yes, I'm a bit lost about why Tuaregs radical militants would attack a mosque, but...)

 

[Gucumatz]

So am I

=====

But in regards to gameplay its a nice wonder.

A free mosque (3 faith, 2 culture, 1 happy), the wonder (another 3 faith), a GE point, and an extra spread for your missionaries (Very powerful if you take a religion that rewards you for the amount of followers around the globe you have).

 

[tenera]

A key thing to consider about the free mosque portion, is that it is a bit stronger a benefit if you lack the mosque belief. The extra missionary use is better than it first sounds like, so long as you intend to, as Gucumatz said, devote faith to spreading your religion far and wide to maximize your founder belief.

 

[RealHuhn]

Wow, I didn't realize that you get a free mosque as well.

That's +6 then which is better than stonehenge. Sure it's a bit later but with the great library you can get it extremely fast.

Edit: No faith smilie yet? I'm dissapointed

 

[AfterShafter]

Situational, but actually quite useful in my eyes. I've garnered *significant* benefit from that extra missionary pop when fighting a religious cold war, and the actual bonuses from the building and regular mosque themselves stack up.

Not the best wonder, but I don't really think it's underpowered - just very situational. That situation being, you're actively competing VS other religions that others are actively spreading. If I actually prioritize a wonder sometimes because I really want what it does, I consider it worthwhile. With the Great Mosque I do focus on it in religion heavy games, especially when I'm playing Pacal and theology is on the menu early anyways.

 

[RazorChain]

I've used it so much in my recent Marathon game on a huge map with 22 civs. On my continent there are 4 other religions beside mine and it has saved me so much faith to combat other religions. I have come to hate foreign Great Prophets with a zealous passion as they work as a inquisitors and missionaries in a one person completely eradicating my religion and imposing theirs in my cities in one move

 

[lordrune]

A key thing to consider about the free mosque portion, is that it is a bit stronger a benefit if you lack the mosque belief. The extra missionary use is better than it first sounds like, so long as you intend to, as Gucumatz said, devote faith to spreading your religion far and wide to maximize your founder belief.

That's my thinking as well. If you don't have a mosque in your beliefs, it's quite a nifty little boost (on top of any other benefits you might get for world wonders). The only issue I have with missionaries is that you need micro-management if you're going to get much benefit - although I've yet to play an 'evangelise the world' game so maybe I should reserve some judgement for now.

 

[Peacemongerer]

When you couple this one with the tithing founder belief, you're virtually unstoppable. If you get a religion first and the mosque, that means you can essentially wrap-up the city states for miles around before you've got more than 1 or 2 fledgling religions competing with you... after you've gotten that immense lead, the high pressure values will ensure that you maintain a vicegrip on uncommitted followers. As populations expand, the bonus from tithing expands exponentially.

 

[SwedishTom]

I've used it so much in my recent Marathon game on a huge map with 22 civs. On my continent there are 4 other religions beside mine and it has saved me so much faith to combat other religions. I have come to hate foreign Great Prophets with a zealous passion as they work as a inquisitors and missionaries in a one person completely eradicating my religion and imposing theirs in my cities in one move

After my first G&K game when America suprised me by sending a Prophet and converted my Holy City to his religion I have had a Inquisitor stationed in my Holy City in every game, which prevents it from happening again. =) .. Never had any of my other cities been converted by a Prophet but pretty sure a inquisitor in your cities will prevent it from happening again. Only thing to remember is if you want to buy a non military unit you have to move the inquisitor out for 1 turn, otherwise just have it in sleeping mode. =)

 

[bds2020]

Just completed my first emperor level game as Boudicca going for a cultural victory. Aurora map, Itinerant Preacher, Tithing and some happy beliefs. With the help of the Grand Mosque of Djenne, I spread my religion quickly over the entire map, and nothing else could take hold. Here's the religion overview from late game:



Note that it had been a long time since I had used a missionary or great prophet. Everytime one of the other religions took a city with either a missionary or a GP, it just couldn't hang on long. The Itinerant Preacher is very powerful when combined with an early spam.

Also, I was earning something like 177 gold per turn just from tithing.

 

[RazorChain]

After my first G&K game when America suprised me by sending a Prophet and converted my Holy City to his religion I have had a Inquisitor stationed in my Holy City in every game, which prevents it from happening again. =) .. Never had any of my other cities been converted by a Prophet but pretty sure a inquisitor in your cities will prevent it from happening again. Only thing to remember is if you want to buy a non military unit you have to move the inquisitor out for 1 turn, otherwise just have it in sleeping mode. =)

So inquisitor in the city works as a contraception....I mean prevention...eh...of heretics in my cities? The would save me a lot of faith because stationing inquisitors in each of my 7 continental cities is cheaper in the long run rather than expending them to root out heresy and following up with a missionary which means more Great Merchants ( and later Great Engineers when I unlock Order SP)

Thanks for the tip

 

[SwedishTom]

So inquisitor in the city works as a contraception....I mean prevention...eh...of heretics in my cities? The would save me a lot of faith because stationing inquisitors in each of my 7 continental cities is cheaper in the long run rather than expending them to root out heresy and following up with a missionary which means more Great Merchants ( and later Great Engineers when I unlock Order SP)

Thanks for the tip

You welcome, I found the tip in this post.. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11605640&postcount=15
and since a Inquisitor cost around 200 Faith at the start of the game it's a cheap way to make sure atleast your Holy City wont get converted if nothing else. =)

 

[anandus]

Offtopic:

(Yes, I'm a bit lost about why Tuaregs radical militants would attack a mosque, but...)

It are shrines for certain Islamic saints, but not every Islamic school of thought believes in saints and some schools consider shrines like that idolatrous.
Actually not very different from Christianity where Catholics believe in saints, but Protestants think the believe in saints is idolatrous.

In Christianity stuff like that happened a few times, for instance the iconoclasm that happened in the Byzantine empire (twice) and also during the reformation. In both cases many, many churches were defaced (here in the Netherlands there are plenty examples of that).

And I guess what the Mali Islamists are doing is the same. And it's a true shame. Idiots

 

[Bakspatel]

Offtopic:
It are shrines for certain Islamic saints, but not every Islamic school of thought believes in saints and some schools consider shrines like that idolatrous.
Actually not very different from Christianity where Catholics believe in saints, but Protestants think the believe in saints is idolatrous.

In Christianity stuff like that happened a few times, for instance the iconoclasm that happened in the Byzantine empire (twice) and also during the reformation. In both cases many, many churches were defaced (here in the Netherlands there are plenty examples of that).

And I guess what the Mali Islamists are doing is the same. And it's a true shame. Idiots

I've read an article a couple of months ago in which the author claimed that the Islamic movements are going towards a religious war, similar to what Christianity had in Europe. The ill tolerance level between some of the movements and how others are oppressed in the Middle-East (Iraq, Dubai, Saudi-Arabia) are only fuelling a possible large conflict. The Arab Spring could have been the start of that. The author had some really good points, but I just hope he's wrong. The destructions and the amount of victims during the religious conflicts was enormous (just think about the massacres done by the Spanish during the 80th Year War), with the weapons that humanity has at the moments, the damage could be enormous.

Sorry for the off-topic part. As for the opening post: I kind of disagree. While the bonus might not be that strong, its obvious that it is intended to support the spreading of your religion. The free addition of a Mosque is imo very handy when you've picked other buildings for your religion such as Cathedrals.

 

[bonafide11]

I'm actually a big fan of this wonder in the game. If you're trying to spread your religion, the extra missionary mission makes a big difference.

 

[Bandersnatching]

I find this wonder very useful; when playing as the Mayans (my new favorite Civ) I usually build it first thing once I've researched Theology. It helps that I never pick the Mosque belief, either. If you have already received your first (or second) Great Prophet, I think this wonder is better than the HS...

 

[pspboy7]

Want a really awesome stupendous holy city capital. Try Stonehenge/Grand Mosque of Djenne/Hagia Sophia. Nice...

 

[The Observer]

....and in addition to having a rather meh power, it's now threatened by Malians rebels in the real world. (Yes, I'm a bit lost about why Tuaregs radical militants would attack a mosque, but...)

I've been tracking this too. It's really shocking that somebody could just stand there, and not even think about the sheer hard work that was put into these long lasting creations. (Ignorance) And these are crucial to World Heritage!

 

[AbenHumeya]

Real world: I don't see anything really wrong or odd. They are not destroying the Masjid, they are just destroying the tombs and sites on graves and obliterating people's Jahiliyya. They are less radical, for better or worse, than would be otherwise suspected, after all, no one really complains that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia smashed the shrines of many Sahaba. The region really isn't going into a war, despite what some people may say or hope for, not a shooting war anyway, aside from certain instances of political sectarianism, such as in Syria, where the Alawite Shia are given state jobs and high rankings in a military dictatorship and minorities are overtly favoured over Sunni Muslims (like 70% of the population).

Much of the regions problems simply lie in the realm of culture, most of the countries in West Africa and Arabia have been under military dictatorships which have attempted to enforce colonial ideologies like Laïcité or ethnic Nationalism and created a comprador class to back them up. Iraq under Saddam had Arab ethnic nationalism, Syria promotes the Shia and Christians over the majority, Mali marginalised the Tuareg and other northern groups, Tunisia promoted Laïcité and attempted to ban the Hijab and even at one point the fast during Ramadan, etc. Now that there is greater connection in the world, with internet, satellite television, etc. it is harder for the military regimes to keep their hold, hence Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, Syria and Mali. But, as these regimes fade, a lot of the problems they created will fade as well. This is really the final victory over the ideological relics of old colonialism.

Civ V: I have put it to great effect, since I never choose Mosques as anything (any stat boost is usually preferable, depending on the game), the free mosque helps and the building itself usually comes at a convenient time. With the general exception of the Huns, getting CS allies via religion and then strategically using religion to take away other civs bonuses at strategic times plays a strong part in my game-plan.

 

[BlakeTheDrake]

Huh... am I the only one who've noticed the 'secret power' of the Great Mosque?

Build it in your capital/Holy City, and it'll grant you an extra boon... namely, the 'one extra preach' will be extended to any GP's you spawn, automatically or deliberately. That, in itself, it quite nifty, especially if combined with the 'Messiah' belief - you can convert entire empires with a single, buffed-up GP. But wait, there's more!

Normally, you can only found a Holy Site with a GP who hasn't preached yet... but the 'extra' preach from the Great Mosque doesn't count against that. So any GP spawned in a city with the Great Mosque can do a single super-preach, and still settle a Holy Site, which is obviously a huge benefit if you completed Piety, and handy regardless.

Taking advantage of that, I've found the Great Mosque of Djenne to be MORE than worth its price... particularly if you don't have Mosques as one of your beliefs, but even if you do.

Honestly, though... they ought to make corresponding 'Super-Church' and 'Super-Pagoda' wonders - as is, if you're intending to build the Great Mosque and wants a 'religious building' belief, taking anything BUT Mosques is strategically better since it means you can 'double up' in the city that builds the Great Mosque... And it's not like there isn't something to pick from, either. The Sistine Chappel should double as a Church, and there's a couple of wonders that could serve as a Pagoda as well, if they don't want to bring in a new Wonder for it, not that there isn't plenty of real-life candidates for it. Maybe the Hōryū-ji (Possible the oldest still-standing wooden structure in the world, UNESCO world heritage site, contains several national treasures), or Atsuta Shrine (Built to contain the legendary treasure-sword, Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi, AKA Ama-no-Murakumo, one of the Thee Imperial Treasures of Japan, and guest-star in countless videogames and animes.)