Porcelain Tower vs Taj Mahal (some Math)

[Stalker0]

So in the vast majority of games, unless I'm in a very competitive religious game I have generally preferred Porcelain Tower. However, I was wonder just how much that GA was worth, so in my current China game I decided to find out.

So looking at my actual game right as I am building the wonder....what would a 10 turn GA grant me (aka no special GA length boosters). This does assume that you are not at infinite GA (aka this new golden age is actually a benefit).... in my experience at this point in the game that is normally true, so any GA is a true benefit.

Taj Majal Bonus
GA Bonuses
630 (this was a ballpark, I did a quick count of all gold plots my civ is working, but no gold multipliers were counted, so this is a lower estimate)
1,010
1,134
166 (from the national wonder)
If we use the old = = = 2 we get 2,625 yields. I think the conversion is reasonable because at this point in the game there is still a lot to build, and a lot of meaty buildings like public schools are coming up. So I think holding hammers equal to culture and science still makes sense at this point in the game.

Per Turn Bonuses
Now I only have 2 religions in my city, so that's 6 and 8 per turn, or 14 yields (I'm ignoring the faith for this discussion).


Porcelain Tower Bonus
1 and 30, or 35 yields. That is the 25% capital science bonus along with a 12 science academy (for the sake of argument I assume the person is going right into scientific theory for maximum benefit. I am ignoring the +2 GPP for this discussion.

So since the Taj and Porcelain are in the same city and gaining the same percentile bonuses, lets say the Porcelain is effectively gaining 35 - 14 = 21 yields a turn.

2,625 / 21 = 125 turns to get even.

Now obviously the capital gets better over time, so the Porcelain bonus does increase, but considering the aggressiveness by which yields lose value over time, that's not likely to help. Also I only used 2 religions in the Taj, I could have had another 14 yields on the building.

So the real X factor is the academy bonus to future GS bulbs. That could be a significant amount, but also tempered by the heavy discount. The fact that I am getting a major boost in yields right away with Taj is a BIG deal.


I am going to try and track how many GS I get, just to see if I can ballpark the science amount, but at first glance, the Taj appears to be MUCH stronger than the P Tower, much more than I realized.

 

[DeAnno]

So the real X factor is the academy bonus to future GS bulbs.

Isn't this really low recently, like 10%? I remember last time I got into the lategame GS felt pretty nerfed.

 

[CrazyG]

In general I'd say take Porcelain Tower is playing for a science victory, otherwise take Taj Mahal. Taj's raw yields are certainly higher even without much synergy.

Sometimes you need to race an AI in tech and there it's important to have Porcelain and to deny it to the AI as well.

Isn't this really low recently, like 10%? I remember last time I got into the lategame GS felt pretty nerfed.

It's pretty good in my opinion. 10% to however many you bulb (at least 5 if playing for a SV), and those scientists arrive later so they're worth a lot more base . I actually find I can afford to delay science around this time, I have plenty of things available to build, but you can also bulb it to reach a tech (archeology being common) if needed.

Thought changes to spies have certainly increased the pressure to bulb scientists immediately.

 

[Thibix Magnus]

Assuming it is the no research agreement version, I would think it kind of depends on the number of cities no? For a one-city empire, Porcelain by itself is a 25% raw science increase overall, that's too good to ignore even when not going SV... the more cities you have the less important the single science multiplier becomes.

 

[Stalker0]

Alright, I collected all of the GS bulbs for that game, so now I can give a more accurate comparison of how that Porcelain Tower bonus actually looks.

First, here is the raw data for those that care:

Spoiler :

Raw Yield (%boosted by academies + Rationalism policy) - Turn Number
2713 (+55%) - Turn 263
3636 (+55%) - Turn 283
4180 (+55%) - Turn 286
4180 (+55%) - Turn 288
4965 (+55%) - Turn 301
5276 (+55%) - Turn 302
6471 (+55%) - Turn 307
6538 (+55%) - Turn 307
6492 (+55%) - Turn 324
6695 (+55%) - Turn 328
6595 (+55%) - Turn 345
9048 (+55%) - Turn 352
8935 (+55%) - Turn 360
9503 (+55%) - Turn 363
12788 (+55%) - Turn 368
18157 (+55%) - Turn 377
*Note - I did receive an additional 3 GS after this time, however, I had already completed the tech tree at this point, so we can say that their values were 0, as science had completely decayed out by then.

So the first number is the actual on screen value. To determine the original base science for the GS, divide this number by 1.55. Then if you want to know how much an academy boosted the GS, multiply the new number by .1.

So what I did is used our latest yield decline formula. Granted, this formula is still very much a work in progress, but its the best thing we have at the moment to look at yields over time. So how long does it take the Porcelain Tower to over take the Taj?

Adding in the GSes, and then using our yield decline formula, I get 63 turns (Turn 326).

For those curious, the academy bulb boost was about 66% of the Porcelain tower's science boost, 33% came from the base yields. I note this because I am not accounting for the capitals science increase over time, which would help the PT get there a bit faster. Since the base yields are only 33% of the package, any variance here isn't going to have the biggest impact, but it still has impact. So we could probably say the true catchup is closer to 55-60 turns.