Portugal with a naval UU? Oh-oh...
- Thread starter Mad Hab
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GeneralMatt
Emperor
I bet you had a tough time with Mongolian Unique Boat
Sorry guys for not replying.
Forgot to check here again..Well they were cheaper, and what else would you give them? I mean they were not really a seafaring people..
Thanks for posting it in my absence.
Ian Toll's Six Frigates: The Epic History of the Founding of the US Navy is a great book on the early US navy frigates...they were called "large frigates", if I recall. Those 44-gun ships could beat the stuffing out of anything smaller than a ship of the line during their time.
I guess I really don't have anything specific to contribute to the thread. I would guess still 1 UU per civ, naval or land, and 1 UB. I do agree they shouldn't both be land-based or sea-based, but that rule has already been broken by the Vikings. Although the Berserker still gets +10% city attack and is a macemen replacement.
I guess I really don't have anything specific to contribute to the thread. I would guess still 1 UU per civ, naval or land, and 1 UB. I do agree they shouldn't both be land-based or sea-based, but that rule has already been broken by the Vikings. Although the Berserker still gets +10% city attack and is a macemen replacement.
Joe Harker
1st in the Premiership!
Rubbish redcoats!!!!!!??????? There so much better than man o war, they destroy anything in their era!!!! 25% against caverly and gunpowder, if anything they are over powered!
Rusty Edge
Deity
I'm sorry. I guess I inferred that in your opinion, the US navy is unaccomplished and undistinguished in history.
winddbourne
Prince
I don't honestly think that a UU on land and on sea is good for every civilization. I'd rather see a larger VARIETY of UU's. For instance more peaceful UU's than just Indias fast worker.
I'd also like to see more powerful and game altering UU's and Buildings in the late game. With all the new stuff for that time period it would be nice if some major power players appeared for the late game, somebody actually able to shake up a "Balance of Power" that's lasted a few thousand years.
So . . . I'd like Military UU's, Seafaring UU's, Peaceful UU's, and Modern UU's. But not one of each for every civilization.
Maybe instead of Seagoing AND Land you could have two UU's be Modern and Ancient, but what modern unit would sumeria have? LOL
I'd also like to see more powerful and game altering UU's and Buildings in the late game. With all the new stuff for that time period it would be nice if some major power players appeared for the late game, somebody actually able to shake up a "Balance of Power" that's lasted a few thousand years.
So . . . I'd like Military UU's, Seafaring UU's, Peaceful UU's, and Modern UU's. But not one of each for every civilization.
Maybe instead of Seagoing AND Land you could have two UU's be Modern and Ancient, but what modern unit would sumeria have? LOL
Gaius Octavius
Deity
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Modern Sumerian unit... RPG infantry?
I agree, I hope they've framed the game so somebody can actually shake up everything in the last few ages, instead of the usual "the most powerful civ in ancient times will be the most powerful in modern times," barring any dog-pile war instituted by the human player (using Montezuma of course).
I agree, I hope they've framed the game so somebody can actually shake up everything in the last few ages, instead of the usual "the most powerful civ in ancient times will be the most powerful in modern times," barring any dog-pile war instituted by the human player (using Montezuma of course).
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
Korea could have a unique ship -- Turtle Ship. These were the earliest ironclad warships, powered solely by oars. It would have a very high strength, require iron and saltpeter, but be quite slow.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
Doesn't really work- how could a small canoe, shallow water canoe be compared to a real ship like a galley? Even the biggest canoes were runts compared to a Norse longship, let alone a galley.
That's the problem with the Sioux- they never actually developed enough to have any military worth noting. Best they had was cavalry archers, something which the Arabs, Chinese, Mongols, Japanese, Huns, Byzantines, Huns, Turks, etc. all had by the boatload.
They could balance it by giving some civs both a land and naval UU, but more tightly limit their superiority over the base unit, so that it averages out.
Portugal,Netherlands,Vikings,England
That list should be expanded to include Korea, America, Germany, and Japan.
-Korea had some mean ironclads as early as the 1400's. That's early (they were, obviously, not steam powered).
-The USA was actually a British ship factory prior to the revolutionary war. A whole motherload of British shipwrights came to the US to design and build Frigates for the Royal navy. As a result, the USA had some pretty hotsy-totsy merchant ships right from the start. We also had some very nice facilities with which to build a military fleet soon after independence.
Enter: USS United States, USS Constellation, and USS Constitution.
These were fine, strong, double decker 44 gunners that were as proud as any in the Royal Navy. I think the US navy has more than earned a place in the annals of naval history. That's not even taking account the "Second to None" policy that we have today.
"Don't give up the ship" -James Lawrence
-Germany.
Don't ever forget the U-Boats. They raised hell in the waters all around Europe, nearly starving London. In fact, it really wasn't until US Destroyer Division 8 arrived in Queenstown, Ireland that the U-boats were tamed at all.
-Japan
I shouldn't even have to elaborate on this one. The japanese battleships of WWII were colossal and quite powerful. (Yamato, anyone?)
[Yamoto is actually a class of battleship, of which there were three, I believe]
Whoops, Nice nice. You beat me to it but yes.
Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
That's still only 8 civs. What about the Incas? What naval units can be drawn from their mountainous empire? The Mongols, who never even bordered an ocean until they conquered China? The Babylonians, who never sailed out of sight of the coast, if they even had cause to leave a river in the first place?
Universal naval civs doesn't work, in my opinion. At best, you'll end up with a few flavour units, like a Chinese junk identical to a galley in everything but graphics.
Universal naval civs doesn't work, in my opinion. At best, you'll end up with a few flavour units, like a Chinese junk identical to a galley in everything but graphics.
Jono
Emperor
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They could simply receive the ironclad (as a turtle ship) earlier...
Saltpeter? Your still playing to much Civ3.
Paideia
Warlord
Well, they sink with a high degree of efficiency..
Seriously though.. I'm not really keen on the idea of a naval UU for every civ. Not unless you seriously expanded the naval exploration/trade/warfare part of the game.. Maybe that's something for Civ V. It would certainly reflect the vast importance of navies historically.
That being said I still hold that the vikings should have gotten the longboat as their UU instead of the berserker.. Granted they would have to change the UB (a bit overpowered with both of them..), but a market with a bonus to production (to signify slave markets) or something like that would be historically accurate.
EDIT:
..and probably spain. The Galleon or Manila Galleon..
MagisterCultuum
Great Sage
I haven't played Civ III in a long time, but I haven't played Vanilla Civ IV or Warlords lately either. They all blend together in my mind since they are more similar to each other than Vanilla is to FfH II.
Turtle ships looked to different than modern ironclads to warrant using the same unit (if it is even possible to let different civs build the same unit at different with different technologies)
The Incas actually had some very nice, very unique boats which were woven out of cotton. I don't remember what they were called, but they were actually about equal to caravels in both size and seaworthiness although the technologies used to build them were very different.
The boats used by Kublai to invade Japan weren't necessarily that bad, he just had the horrible fortune to invade during the 2 of the largest storms in Japanese history (Kamakazi, the divine wind)
Turtle ships looked to different than modern ironclads to warrant using the same unit (if it is even possible to let different civs build the same unit at different with different technologies)
The Incas actually had some very nice, very unique boats which were woven out of cotton. I don't remember what they were called, but they were actually about equal to caravels in both size and seaworthiness although the technologies used to build them were very different.
The boats used by Kublai to invade Japan weren't necessarily that bad, he just had the horrible fortune to invade during the 2 of the largest storms in Japanese history (Kamakazi, the divine wind)
Paideia
Warlord
New research has apparently shown that a large part of the boats used in the invasion were converted flatbottomed river junks, very vulnerable to storms..
Khanate
Kulturformidler
What does Mongol unique ship do? Sink when it meets a storm?
Khanate
Kulturformidler
It should rather be two UU, and one of them could be naval for naval-based civilizations like Portuguese, Netherlands, Vikings and England. Maybe also Japan, not sure if they actually had a good naval in earlier times, but they sure did in modern times.
Khanate
Kulturformidler
Oh, and of course Arabia - they completely dominated the Red Sea and Indian Ocean before the Portuguese came around Africa. I can't remember the name of the galley they used in early times, but it is mentioned by Ibn Battuta, the Arabian Marco Polo, who wrote text about boat journeys down African east coast to Mogadishu and Kilwa.
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