Possible collaborative project: Truly Heroic Mod

[Son of Moose]

Poser002

Could look in to ceaser games and the pharo or what ever the other game they made was. They had a huge thing in that game based on Cultural stuff. Like they had temples, shrines, simples of the gods.

Yes .... Caesar 3, Pharaoh, Zeus and Emperor: RotMK are great games (the classic CB games) which contain several buildings that (imho) should be able to be incorporated into this mod.

A newer CB (City Builder) game, Children of the Nile (CotN) introduced the concept of Prestige .... hence my earlier post of this topic.

My rationale for all these additional grand buildings is that virtually all of the great Ancient era empires (Babylonians and Egyptians especially) constructed these buildings in order to add to the prestige of their leader and the glory of their Empire.

Even today, this philosophy is continued insofar as their is great pride attached to housing the tallest building in the world or the most high-tech sports arena in the world, etc.

This idea of Prestige (either for the Leader or for the Nation) is a universal phenomenon which imho should be reflected in Civ.

 

[Son of Moose]

Poser002

well u could have culture just be to make the people happy. Dif buildings will make the people happy. Prestige could be more on the miltary side of the game. Higher prestige makes it so ur troops have more stats, hitpoints def dmg, also maybe prestige could be tied in to the tech tree. Prestige would upen up new units. So say ur in the 1930-1960 era u would get the next new tank or air craft. Start out with a fighter plan of early ww2 then as u move up in prestige u would start to unlock better fighters and soon jets and heavy bombers so on. Tanks u would start with teh panzar then tiger teh t-34 the t-42 the t-74 so on.

EXCELLENT IDEAS!!

CULTURE should be linked to happiness (and maybe boundaries) as it is in the default game.

PRESTIGE should have a more military application.

 

[poser002]

Maybe try to make 3 dif systems tied in to the mod.

Goverment - Each goverment would give dif building/labor and research. Maybe make it so each gov. gives better research for dif kinds of buildings and such. So maybe communist would be better at labor research things and say fascism better at research in war units. Then Democratic would be more on research in general like lab's and solor energy so on.

CULTURE - Keeps the people happy and pleased. The dif kinds of culture might rise or lower the culture. Say to have open culture in the city meaning u have 3-4 styles keep ur people happy as they have the chance to learn dif kinds. Then a city with one style wont be as happy and maybe u will ahve uprisings because the people feel represed.

PRESTIGE - more on the side of military units. Maybe open up new weapon styles. Also maybe make it that u have leaders on the field as officers. Like how u get the guys form the great wonders that u can use to give ur tech tree a bosst or art work. Maybe make it so u get an officer that is a great combat leader and attacker. Or he can be used to give ur city a building. The building could be a bunker, airfield, aa guns so on and this could make it so u can build new units. Say u need an airfield to build planes or a tank factory to build a new tank line.

 

[Son of Moose]

FexFX

I have only now had to time to download and examine your "New Tech Chart" .... as things have been pretty busy here this morning.

Just a couple of quick comments:

(1) Congratulations .... it is looking extremely promising!!

(2) I have been actively thinking about Maxpublic's idea of grouping the various technologies into appropriate categories (much like the Rise of Nations model).

I am beginning to think that this just might well be "the way to go" if we are going to introduce a host of new technologies into the game. It just seems that the tech tree could become hideously complicated!! In addition, it could prove extremely tricky to try to link some of these technologies .... I agree with the earlier criticism that some of the tech tree linkages are somewhat tenuous.

Therefore, how can we best combine these two seemingly divergent models for a tech tree:

(1) Divide all the current, new and proposed technologies according into (say) seven appropriate categories (I think I made a suggestion a few pages back .... but please feel free to propose your own categories )

(2) In order to advance from one era to the next, a player must have completed 100 per cent of one technology category and (say) at least 60 per cent of all the other categories. This development would still (hopefully) permit some degree of flexibility wrt tech research so that this Civ 4 innovation would not be destroyed.

Any takers for this idea?

 

[poser002]

Could try just 8 really long tree's. Like how it starts out when u first start u have the row at the start and then it kinda starts to move from there. Mayve just have goverment,war,sci,farm,culture (i'm sure there are a few more areas u could place) But make it that each tree would be just one long line no crossing over. Then u could make it say when u get to the 5th box of farming u need sci box 5 befor u can unlock box 6 and 7 of farming. Then goverment 4 to unlock sci 6 and so on. Then just give each box more things. So liek right now in game every box is like 1-3 things make it that each box gives 3-6 things. makes it a bit easyer then haven 8000 box's lol.

 

[Son of Moose]

Poser002

Thank you for your latest ideas.

Government

Although I would be disinclined to radically change the concept of CIVICS that already exists in the default game, it just might be possible to add a few extra features to it. Maybe even a couple of extra categories .... there are existing mods that (with their creator's approval) could possibly be included within the LITTLE mod.

Maybe there might be another way to introduce this concept so that it readily links to Culture and Prestige (below)?

Culture

Again I would tend to retain the philosophy behind the current concept of culture appearing in the default game. However, as proposed earlier, I would like to see a lot more buildings in the Ancient (especially) era that will be able to further modify this gameplay parameter.

Prestige

This new gameplay concept is very open for discussion. While it should definitely primarily have a decidedly military application, its modus operandi still needs to be defined. Therefore any suggestions in this regard are most welcome.

 

[Son of Moose]

Poser002

Yes .... I am worried about how best to implement the new substantially augmented tech tree.

All these new technologies must be fun and interesting to research. They must appear to be fully integrated into the game and not merely "tagged on". They should also continue to provide the player with a series of tactical options (like the default non-linear tech tree succeeds in doing).

This is a singularly important gameplay feature and a most tricky one to decide.

 

[FexFX]

Son Of Moose:
Looks like you never looked at the XLS file I sent!!
I've already planned at least one "building" before Obelisk...
In fact, I IMPLEMENTED it before I even began!
Belief is now the earliest faith tech.
Belief allows you to construct Rituals.
Rituals give +1 Culture UNTIL it becomes obsolete with Mysticism.

This is the ONLY building in Civ IV to do this By the way!
EVERY other building in the game continues to give Culture forever!

Mysticism is actually 2 techs from the beginning now...

Belief leads to Symbolism
Which allows you to build totems +1 Culture.
Totems do not stop producing culture for a long time.

Symbolism leads to Mysticism...
However there are a LOT of other new early techs which people will desire BEFORE Mysticism...so Mysticism is likely to come even later...

Other new buildings include the Jewler, available with Artisanship. +1 Happiness until you gain Barter (one more level up the tree) at which point it grants +1 Commerce as well.

Oh, and GOOD NEWS!!!
The Whole research thing appears to be a non issue!
I have two people saying they have NOT seen this!

 

[Ad Hominem]

Lots of great ideas floating around... more input might be required, before we start organizing things. FexFX has done a great job in his list and I'll be back sometime in the weekend with specific feedback.

The LITTLE Mod for Civ4 is going to become a reality. When we are ready to move from "throwing around ideas" to "begin to actually create something", we'll have to create an appropriate new topic.

 

[FexFX]

CONFIRMED
Great Plains, Highlands, Hub, Ice Age, Inland Sea, Lakes, Maze, Mirror, Oasis, Pangea, Ring, Team_Battleground, Terra, Tilted Axis, Wheel
DO NOT WORK WITH SIZE CHANGING MODS!
All of these map scripts result in a single land mass without any water, and climate banding, from ice to arid at the edges gradiating to jungle in the very middle.
Their Scripts specify map sizes.
I attempted to make my own versions of these maps by simply inserting the new map sizes...however this DID NOT work!

The following map types should work without a problem:
Archipelago, Balanced, Continents, Custom Continents, Islands.

 

[maxpublic]

Have you, by any remote chance, still got a copy of your list of techs divided into these categories? (Maybe FexFX might find them extremely useful?

Sorry, no. I used to own all the Civs and CTPs but I beat them to death in terms of game play and gave them away. When I did that I also deleted all of the modifications I had tucked away in my 'mods' directory for these games. The only game in this series I still have is SMAC, and for that I have the tweaks (although I didn't have to change SMAC nearly as much as the Civ variations) - but this doesn't help you.

Never thought I'd need that stuff again. Now I wish I'd been a bit less efficient in keeping my hard drives organized.

Max

 

[Son of Moose]

FexFX

Please forgive me if I appear a trifle confused (it has been quite a busy day here ) but I do not seem to remember receiving a separate XLS file from you. I have downloaded the file appearing on (?) page 5/6 of this thread and examined it.

[On closer inspection I now note that there are some overlays above several of the green coloured squares. I will take a closer look just now .... for I totally missed this additional feature!! ].

Perhaps (if you have the time and/or inclination) it might be most helpful if you could directly post a list of the new buildings (both definite and proposed) in this thread (possibly together with an extremely brief outline of each).

I really like the new early (pre)religious techs outlined above .... they are both elegant and afaik totally historically accurate wrt the now prolonged Ancient era.

I also like the idea of introducing various artisans and craftsmen to the game .... they are imho extremely important to the existence of early cultures. Perhaps you can visit the official Children of the Nile website for further ideas? (Maybe I can try to copy a list later).

Btw: I did read (with much joy) your thread at the Apolyton forum where your problem seems to have been successfully resolved (or proved to be a non-issue).

 

[Son of Moose]

Ad Hominem

I'll be back sometime in the weekend with specific feedback

I look forward to it!!

The LITTLE Mod for Civ4 is going to become a reality.

Yes .... indeed!!

 

[Son of Moose]

Maxpublic

Never thought I'd need that stuff again. Now I wish I'd been a bit less efficient in keeping my hard drives organized.

Yes .... it is a great pity as it could have been extremely helpful.

Something along the line of .... "Hindsight gives you 20/20 vision".

 

[Son of Moose]

FexFX

I would imagine that predominantly land-based maps (Pangea and Great Plains readily come to mind) might work best with this mod .... largely because of the need to fully utilize as much of the map as possible. For better or for worse, I have always thought that water (sea, ocean) was a waste of space because it could not be settled.

Perhaps that is why I never really liked 1503 AD all that much.

EDIT

Children of the Nile link:

http://www.immortalcities.com/cotn/gameinfo/characters.php

 

[Son of Moose]

Here is the "published" tech tree for Fireb's mod entitled "Roman Kings"

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php?file=56946_Rome_tech_tree.jpg

First access the following page:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=144721

It includes:

Wife snatching
Cattle raiding

Perhaps, on second thoughts, some of these ideas might be a little "radical" .... although this sort of behaviour would have been rife throughout the Ancient era.

 

[FexFX]

It includes:

Wife snatching
Cattle raiding

Perhaps, on second thoughts, some of these ideas might be a little "radical" .... although this sort of behaviour would have been rife throughout the Ancient era.

Actually that makes me think we need cattle rustling...which makes me think that the 1800s could really use some cowboy units...


Cattle rustling could actually be kinda neat tho...Make specific units that could cause the Horse, Cow and Sheep bonuses to dissapear for a certain number of turns...
Tho that might be above what I know how to do currently.

 

[Son of Moose]

FexFX

Make specific units that could cause the Horse, Cow and Sheep bonuses to dissapear for a certain number of turns

Actually .... maybe it could be the other way around. Maybe the player could produce a specific unit in order to increase their Horse, Cow and Sheep bonuses. Alternatively, and possibly more intriguingly (if there is any early contact between opposing civilizations), maybe this special unit could "pillage" these resources appearing in an opponents territory.

 

[FexFX]

I'd like to stay away from permanently pillaging horses and such.
That's WAY harsh...
Also it may not be possible...I am not sure at this point.

I wont be getting much done mod wise today as Its a short day at work for me, and I have Game tonight...Fridays are my RPG night, I've been GMing the same game for over two years now!

Incidentally A friend and I are planning on dropping the plot of my ongoing campaign into a mod for Oblivion when it comes out!

 

[Son of Moose]

FexFX

YAY!
310 downloads between here and CivFanatics since Monday when I posted v.05!

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Hopefully we might (eventually) do even better with the "LITTLE" mod.

EDIT/ADDITION:

I'd like to stay away from permanently pillaging horses and such.
That's WAY harsh...
Also it may not be possible...I am not sure at this point.

Point taken .... maybe it could rather be implemented as some sort of "one off" improvement.

Enjoy your game.