Guys we really should make the attempt more often to reach out, and come to a meeting of the minds.
We share an amazing amount of common ground.
You really are talking about creating the ultimate SIMCIV game, and it is a extrapolation of what C2C is and is aiming to become.
We should retitle this thread as C2C 2.0 or SIMCIV, that should spice up the conversation a bit.
Please bear with my train of thought in this one long connected point and post to make a point. We can do all of this.:
Have you guys seen
iontom's project?
http://www.iontom.com/2012/08/25/game-build/
He left some links and an invite in my visitor page.
Looks cool, but I wonder if its too ambitious.
Please Keep up with this line of reaching out Hydro! I love it when you can step forward, (just don't make one back!)
But, You don't know if it's too ambitious unless you try.
I say we share a lot of common ground, and we should all try to work together to create a greater collective and collaborative vision. Why not?
There is so much we could do if we could journey together, even if we don't end up in the same place.
I do think we should make the effort to come together.
After all, the result could be quite beyond awesome.
This can still become anything we all want it to be.
Aim high and surprise yourself at where we can come together.
If we fall short then we hit above the high water mark.
C2C is a constant exercise at keeping ambitious improvement growing and raising the bar.
and we are doing quite well at moving it in the right direction. Who's to say we can't join forces and pull it off?
Hi Folks,
Hydromancerx pointed me to this thread. I though I'd step in and say that I have a group on reddit right now dedicated to doing a very similar project to what you propose here. Except that we're working on it as a browser based JS 3D engine. It's going to be all open source and free to play.
We want as much as possible to be procedural and new. Rather than hardcoding dozens to hundreds of Civilizations we want to have each culture evolve and split and use linguistics to generate new names for things.
It's going to be like Civ meets Paradox games but much more procedural generation and it will start on Earth but expand into space later. But it will try to capture more of the story of humanity and collaboration, rather than just eternal warring nation states.
I really dig the UML you guys are doing in this thread. I'm a database specialist myself. T-SQL only though :\ I want to learn some noSQL storage layers and some type of distributed computation technology for rendering simulation content in the background possibly using BOINC. But all of that remains to be seen, we decided to just start with the engine.
The App: (use Chrome)
http://webhexplanet.herokuapp.com/
The Github:
https://github.com/rSimulate/WebHexPlanet
The Community
http://www.reddit.com/r/simulate
Game Planning
http://www.reddit.com/r/MetaSim (I'm planning on getting a forum soon)
My initial blog post:
http://www.iontom.com/2012/08/25/game-build/
I you're interested, shoot me a message, email, or just join the github and reddit, thanks!
iontom (iontom@gmail.com)
Welcome Iontom!! Yes I'm interested. We dig you too! Please join our discussion as well.
Thanks for reaching out!
I hope you feel the same about working together as we do.
I really love your project and hope we can all build some common ground together.
Our vision is pointed in the same direction after all.
I would love to hear what you think about C2C so far as well.
Anything I could do to help, just let me know.
Welcome to a Dream Team of possibility!
It is my personal vision that we all try to reach out, and see how much more we can all do together, than just by ourselves.
We each have strengths and weaknesses, and by adding the extent of our vision to each other, and minimizing each others faults and limitations, we can all reach a greater reality.
Creating the future and improving what we have is our only limit, once we get past ourselves and out of each others way.
You just never know how far you can reach until you take that first step. There may be a better valley around the next corner.
You have to be willing to explore.
....LOL. I think is totally hilarious how alike we are in some ways. For a long time this has been my dream game. I was even thinking about it the other night; how it would be possible using an engine like we seem to be envisioning to combine a game like spore with civilization, with something like Master of Orion, in a sequence of escalating scale.
Imagine controlling the evolution of a species in an early game stage... but not necessarily being the winner.. the winner of each stage controlling the starting conditions for the next stage. For example, if the winners of the evolution stage are aquatic, then for the rest of the stages, an aquatic species is used; it is the oceans that are inhabited rather than land during the the "civilization" phase until technology grants the oceanic species the ability to go out of water.
The winners of the civilization phase control the type of society/culture that exists for the space expansion game. I even thought about a single celled stage in which the winning team picks the type of life that develops (individual, versus communal, versus single mind over several separate part types of life where "individuals" are all part of one creature).
But that is down a long road... right now we should keep are heads on the ground and take Civ to the next level (if this ever gets off the ground).
I know you're not referring me here, but I felt this way back when Ultima(especially IV, and V), Civilization, and Sim City came out.
Yes, Master of Orion should be included in the list of games to match up with as well as Civilization. SIMEARTH as well. I had very similar discussion in the Master of Orion III design forums, back in the day. Too bad the team listened to the wrong things I had to say.
8I really wish you guys would comment on my suggestions more, I mentioned MOO and others many times.
I hope we really don't limit ourselves to just Civ as an inspiration. Our next game can be everything we want it to be.
And we can find a way to learn how to do it together.
By God that would be the best game ever made. Why haven't the developers at major gaming companies made it yet? If we do it we could gain a name in the gaming industry.
(in response to primemOver's quote)
And I have to agree, why shouldn't we at least attempt to try?
It make take us a long time, it may be too ambitious, but
"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp -- or what's a heaven for?" -Robert Browning.
Don't you want to play that potential game?
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."
-Margaret Mead
Indeed.
If we limit our imagination, we limit our possibilities. We have to imagine our game to be more, and that we can work together to create something greater, or we will be left with what we have before us.
Do you doubt we can? I don't.
(this was why I posted these quotes earlier in this thread)
@ primem0ver: It certainly is an intriguing idea to use points instead of tiles. I'm not a programmer, so I won't comment on the technical aspects - Koshling and the others know much more about this than I do.
In terms of game design, it would probably be the most radical depature yet suggested. Tiles have always been one of the holy cows of the Civilization series. They are taken to be a self-evident, integral part of that game, like the six attributes and saving throws are in D&D. A game without tiles would, in essence, be perceived to be a totally different type of game.
Personally, I'm not necessarily opposed to that - I'm all for trying out something new and innovative, like using globes as I suggested. But eventually, as you make more and more departures, the question arises: what type of game do Koshling et al. want to make? One that clearly displays its Civilization heritage, and stays roughly in that ballpark, or one that pretty radically departs from it in almost every department?
For instance, one vision for a game I have had for a long time is something along the lines of SimLife or Evolution: The Game of Intelligent Life (which Hydromancerx mentioned), but with polities instead of lifeforms. Civilization via the SimLife route, if you will. The player would be controlling and all the time changing overarching parameters, but the control over his polity / civilization would be largely indirect. It would be more like: "Experiment with the parameters of society, and watch how your people develop!"
I think it would be a very interesting type of game, but it's obviously totally different from Civilization, and very probably too much of a departure for many players here on Civfanatics to get excited about it.
Not me. Why limit the game to a Civilization perspective? Why shouldn't it evolve to become something greater?
why limit yourself, you are not a programmer, but your ideas and discussion are valuable, why limit yourself to not try to learn. The difference between a player and a modder is the attempt to learn.
Start with editing, and learning from each other, then you may surprise yourself.
I already recognize you as part of the solution.
So Here once again are some game attempts that inspired me (so hopefully it inspires some feedback this time):
Did you guys even see my post on this? And no this isn't mine.
http://doryen.eptalys.net/2012/12/motivational-mind-blown/comment-page-1/#comment-22271
"Genius rarely comes without some kind of craziness. And Mark Johnson, creator of Ultima Ratio Regum, is definitely a genius. He just released the latest version of his 16th century battle simulator. And boy you should try it and read about it. The attention to detail is such that the world generator starts at… solar system level."
http://www.ultimaratioregum.co.uk/game/info/
"Ultima Ratio Regum is a middle-ground between roguelikes, RPGs and strategy games. It has no fantasy elements and seeks instead to be closer to a realistic history simulator, and a strategy/4x game which just happens to be in ASCII. Combat is rare and deadly – whilst these mechanics are modeled in detail, exploration, trade and diplomacy factors will have just as much effort put into them."
http://www.zylannprods.fr/en/?page_id=24
https://github.com/Zylann/Simciv
Simciv is a management game inspired of Pharaoh (Sierra) and Dwarf Fortress that I develop since March 2012. It’s a sandbox game in which you can build a city the way you like, create houses, cultivate, hunt, mine… and manage your citizen
Here's an idea, you might want to all form an ongoing conversation and involve/invite all of these people. See if Afforess and Zapparra would join the talk as well.
To the creators of C2C
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=484339
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, C2C is Gaming Enlightenment. C2C is making me question the purpose of games other than CivIV. Why bother with them now, when they will never be as good as CivIV with C2C? Civilization V can never be what C2C is. How can I possibly be excited about Europa Universalis IV now? And to think that C2C is NOT EVEN COMPLETE? To think that the Prehistoric Era is NOT EVEN FINISHED??? I fear that if multi-maps are ever made a possibility, that I will fuse to my PC chair due to not moving from it. And should I die fused to my chair, it will be worth it. There will be no reason to move, as C2C is that good ALREADY. To think of what it has the potential to be..... it has the potential to be THE Video Game. The Ultimate and Absolute, never to be rivaled by anything, EVER. How could ANYTHING compare to a game that literally spans the whole of human existence?
That is all.
Why bother, indeed, we all want to see it get even better. Why stop now. Why think we've done all we can, C2C is not about more of more, it is about continuing to improving things.
It is not about giving up and settling for what makes the most people happy. It is about reaching for the greatest improvement we can find!
The mod of mods. An interesting suggestion
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=482333
I've thinking and
Why don't we, all the community, stop and finish all the things that each one is doing and we organize ourselves to collect all the work and coolness each mod has such as maps, civs, techs, etcetcetcetc..... we can and make the
official fanmade third expansion for civilization 4?
I am dead serious
This was my inspiration for attempting to create a community bridge to inspire that best game possible. I hope we can aspire to the mod of mods' the 'One' game to unite the all.
I argue that C2C is the closest thing so far and pointed well in the right direction. A little more momentum and it can and will snowball into more than we can hope.
Believe it, we are close to making the idea possible.
This thread explores what else we can do. My point continues in the next thread.
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