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Post-Game Map Writeup

Discussion in 'BTS Multi-Team Demogame II' started by DaveMcW, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

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    My main goal with this map was to solve the two most popular complaints about the last map:
    - Starting positions weren't balanced.
    - Needs more naval action.

    I took the easy way out on the first one by using a mirror map, but I think I did a good job of balancing starts with unique resources. And there were some nice naval tactics in the various wars.


    I also forsaw two problems, which I tried to hint at in this thread:
    - Sequential turns takes forever.
    - Tech trading dominates the game no matter how good the map is.

    The players picked the correct solution to the first problem, but deadlocked on the second problem and the tie was broken by default settings. It was ironic to see two teams who voted for tech trading wiped out early, and the third team blackmailed into gifting away their tech lead.

    I think this game proves that experience is better than democracy when it comes to choosing game settings.


    Here is the map.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Thanks DaveMCW. Also thanks for all your hard work and attentive administrating/moderating. Did the map play out like you planned/envisioned as far as the home-islands protected until Astronomy approach?

    I do have a question about your naval combat comments. I don't feel that Naval combat played a big role for AMAZON in this game, but maybe you mean it did for other teams?

    Are the team forums being made public?
     
  3. damnrunner

    damnrunner Deity

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    Agreed on the tech sharing being an unfair aspect of the game. Gives way too much power to savvy AMAZON diplomats.

    I think the 1st GOTM would have had more naval action if the game had progressed further. When it ended teams were having success with a land war, but machine guns were not that far away tech wise which would have frozen land combat for a while. Turning to the seas would have been an expected outcome.

    I thought the placement of initial resources (especially strategic ones) was fantastic. However, being isolated on home islands for the 1st few centuries made the early game less interesting than it could be.
     
  4. AlphaShard

    AlphaShard Emperor

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    I am actually not sure the resources (mainly the gems, gold and silver) were perfectly balanced mainly due to Williem being Financial, how can 3 +6 Commerce balance against 3 +9 commerce tiles?

    In the end though it is as you pointed out, being blackmailed into giving the tech lead really lost the game for us. Honestly that declaration of war on the Q really set us back. I thought we could recover but I was clearly wrong there. I think if our team had stuck more together we could have come up with better plans. It also doesn't help when your team leader pretty much quits after barely a year into it.

    Our team slowly evaporated even after the victories over M&M, so I gave the best effort I could but clearly the Spys and Cooperations were what Amazon needed to get to the Spaceship first.

    Naval wasn't much of a role in this game with a giant center continent. I also had no idea we were on a flat map not just ice surrounding us.
     
  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    I didn't even think about the FIN trait unbalancing the resources... That's interesting...

    At any rate, I agree with Alphashard that the map didn't encourage naval conflict. Navy was just more or less a taxi service to and from the mainland.
     
  6. AlphaShard

    AlphaShard Emperor

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  7. nabaxo

    nabaxo King

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    Funny that it's mainly Team Amazon writing here.

    Anyway, I agree with Dave. No tech-trading if we ever do another one of these games.
     
  8. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    :) It is not that surprising that Amazons write the most here, our team kept its consistency the most of all the other teams.

    You must have missed the heated battles in the sea between Q, Sirius and Amazon, but they were there. Many barrels of oil from sunken destroyers and transporters have been spilled in the sea around the Q and Maverick home islands.

    I second the opinion that next MTDG must be strict No tech trading.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    I do remember those few turns when everyone got destroyers... There was a little fighting then, but can there be any comparison to say the DoE Earth Map battles and manuvers between Triemes, Caravels and all the was to Frigates Ships of Line and Finally Destroyers?

    That is the kind of Naval warfare that really gets the juices flowing
     
  10. AlphaShard

    AlphaShard Emperor

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    I'm the only Sirius player left, I don't know if there are any CDZ or Q players left and no one from M&M has posted for a very long time.

    I agree no more Tech Trading.
     
  11. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    There was some naval action when I was turn playing for Quatronia. Had to send a few of those nasty Sirian ships to the bottom. I'd like to think we gave better than we got. :)

    Can the mods please open up all the team boards?
     
  12. AlphaShard

    AlphaShard Emperor

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    Yeah that was General Bulbmuz there.
     
  13. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Ah, yes, Blubmuz :)
     
  14. nabaxo

    nabaxo King

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    I see now that all the forums are open. Now...Where to start...
     
  15. socralynnek

    socralynnek Civ & Hattrick addict

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    Hey, don't forget me...at least I think the number of missed turns in the last few months was only 5 or so (despite having internet problems for two weeks...)

    BTW, to tell it short: tech trading killed our team.
     
  16. AlphaShard

    AlphaShard Emperor

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    Ditto
     
  17. 2metraninja

    2metraninja Defender of Nabaxica

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    Gents, I want to say: Hats down we all mere civvers to the master-minds of the ETTT concept Sommerswerd and SilentConfusion. :hatsoff:

    I only hope SC is fine, as he left suddenly without saying a word
     
  18. BLubmuz

    BLubmuz HoF Quattromaster

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    Yes, Blubmuz!

    Now let me say what i thought of this game.

    1) Congratulations to the mapmaker, it was really a great idea and a good setup.
    2) Thanks to Dave Shack for hosting and for his efforts to keep the server goin'
    3) Shame on the Admins for their fool decision about a non-existent violation of rules i should have committed. Usually, to commit a crime you need a reason, why should have i did that? That upsetted me to the point i left Sirius to the AI. I don't wanna comment how bad the game progressed from that point, it's not the reason of this post.
    4) Since i'm curious, i took a quick look at the other teams' threads. I can't beleve to my eyes when i've seen CDZ's thread. Did they really existed? I mean, they started the game, played some few turns, but then? Who really played the game? No posts, no threads, no diplomacy. This is a question i ask to the Admins. They can see any thread in this competition, how comes they never asked for who they really were?
    - Merlot and Mavericks, the only teams eliminated have over 2K posts. (BTW, again congrats to Slaze for his resistance)
    - Quatronia almost 3K
    - Amazon and Sirius around 7K (despite Sirius' thread was almost not posted after i left, 8 months ago)
    - Finally, CDZ has 238 posts. I suppose they never really existed.

    5) Shame on all the Sirius members, mainly to Lord Parkin and the ones who took in charge important roles to have left the game. Next time please don't start a thing you cannot finish. To AlphaShard, i'd like to say this: we agreed to left the game to the AI, why on Earth you changed your mind?
    6) more shame to most Sirius members (even if they probably never read this) to not have understood, as i has, what a trap was the ETTT and to not have let me break it when we has a strong tech advantage on the other teams, at the times we were researching RP. I clearly remember that when i've read the ETTT proposal from Amazon i thought that it was too complicated, too full of points and clauses to not being a trap, like it actually was. And this is confirmed reading their dedicated Diplo thread.
    7) congrats to Amazon, not on their victory, but on their multiplayer diplo skills. Perhaps they even know who CDZ actually were.
    8) to 2metraninja amd Sommerswerd: no guys, i never cheated. Even if i suppose you did i don't have proofs, so i shut up. To be completely honest i moved some units (in a useless way) only while chatting in game with 2metraninja, jus to bother him.
    Speaking of which, i raise again this question: why a player should take screenies while chatting with an opponent? Don't tell me you regularly take screenies every time you finish a turn, it can be hard to believe. The answer is simple: to Photoshop them, to the benefit of the Admins. And why the opponent (me) moves units a few tiles in his lands covered by a full railroads network while chatting with his opponent? Would the heroic Amazon tell to the world that their galleons were blocked by my destroyers and that a good part of their army, landed to not being sunk would have been wiped the following turn thanks to the artilleries they managed to have deleted by incompetent Admins? Or probably even without them, but at that point that won't matter.
     
  19. nabaxo

    nabaxo King

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    Just gonna quickly answer this. I believe CDZ stands for CivDuelZone. I think that their main forums where off-site on http://www.civduelzone.com/
     
  20. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Now that the game is over I can say to Blubmuz that one of the reason so many of your statements went unanswered was because I begged my team not to respond to you because I feared you would use our statements as an excuse to quit and ruin the game... And it was all for naught, because quit you did anyway.

    I guess this fight has been a long time coming so now that the game is over I am fine to have it. I also release anyone on my team who was keeping silent for my sake, as now the game is over, say whatever your heart feels... There is no more game to preserve.

    Now to respond to Blubmuz...

    1) Shame on you for calling DaveMCW a "fool" and "chicken" and all other vile things, and showing no appreciation for his hard and difficult job as admin... Only then to say "Good job to the Mapmaker"?!?... Hello?! The Mapmaker is DaveMCW, the one you call "fool.". Being admin is tough, thankless job. Show some appreciation.:(
    2) I agree, Thanks to Dave Shack for hosting.
    3) You Doublemoved, multiple times, and finally I caught you in the act with screenshots. I have the proof on screenshots, that I sent to the admins only seconds after you Doublemoved your Artillery and illegally upgraded your crossbows... Seconds... Literally as I was sending proof of one doublemove you committed another. That is why your units were deleted. And the REASON you were breaking rules, doing doublemoves is obvious. BECAUSE YOU WERE LOSING THE WAR. Anyone can see that from the threads. We can argue about this until the jubilee comes and the rapture and Armagedon itself... I have the proof, the admins have the proof. I had not showed the proof to everyone because I was trying to protect your reputation, and not cause you unecessary shame as was caused to Memphus, but obviously you don't appreciate it as you are accusing me of PhotoShopping the screenies. If you ask me to, I will post the screenshots here for all to see and judge what is real. I still have the screenshots.
    4) STOP ACCUSING CDZ of being a ghost team. CDZ players, especially socralyneck, unlike you, played to the end with honor. CDZ are honorable players and shame on you for accusing them. The reason CDZ have so few posts is because they post on CDZ forum not CFC, get a clue.:p

    5) Shame on you for accusing Lord Parkin and other honourable Sirius players. You crashed the car, not them. Lord Parkin had the wisdom to see that ETTT was a guarantee to Sirius to be the last of two teams standing. All you had to do was stay in it and victory was yours. I give LP a lot of credit for that because I know he must have been very wary of allying with me, but he put his bias aside for the good of the team. Good for him and shame on you.

    There is so much more to say but I am too busy so I will talk more later. Let the arguments begin:D
     

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