Potential EMR danger from handheld radio?

[Lotus49]

OK, I take this issue seriously - though most don't. Attached below is the specs on a handheld radio which I use on a regular basis. I'd like for the more knowledgable persons to take a look, and tell me if they think there is any potential EMR danger, after longterm use.

The power should not be underestimated; for example if you hold the transmit button and if the FM radio transceiver is within a few feet of my computer's speakers, the speakers make this (clearly, highly) audible buzzing sound. I have another, more powerful VHF/UHF handheld radio, which can actually made a shredder start running, if you key up within a few feet of it (practically anywhere in the same room), and it's plugged in. Fortunately I seldom ever need to use that radio.

So... <, >, or = the power (AKA cell-damaging EMR) of a typical cell phone? At least tell me that much. I seek some words of wisdom on this issue. Meantime, I try to keep the radio at arms length, and yell into it when I transmit. PROXIMITY IS EVERYTHING... that is my philosophy on EMR. Of course power is the other key measure.

Anyway - look at specs on the .pdf, and discuss. One thing to keep in mind, is that one one side of my family, everyone dies of cancer. As my sig would indicate, I'm not afraid of death in the slightest... but, while I AM alive, I want to be as healthy as possible, and have all my DNA & cells undamaged.

And yeah, when I was at the airport and these 2 geeks came by and sat near me, and fired up their laptops and went WiFi, I got up and relocated. That's just me. Laugh if you will, but to me long-term exposure to low levels of EMR is not something to take for granted.

And the day they stop manufacturing CORDED mice & keyboards, is the day I stop using computers. That'll be a tough day, though. I think I'm going to have to buy a whole bunch of USB peripherals, and stockpile when I feel that time is approaching. OK, just kidding on this paragraph... but not really.

Btw, I've worked around radios, RADAR & stuff for about a decade, and I've always tried my utmost to limit my exposure. I ask the tech/maintenance guys, and they always chuckle, and shrug off the dangers. I note however, they are always prematurely dying of cancer... curiously. Granted these guys I'm talking about are getting more up close and personal with RADAR / radio transmitter structures a LOT more powerful than some handheld radio, but still. Low power... long term exposure...

Btw (part 2), I was actually trained a little bit by some of the COMM guys in the USMC... on using the field radios (you know, you've seen them in war movies), and they always stress, "keep the transmitter away from your genetals". Hmm, yeah, it's all fun and games though - this wireless stuff. And guess what, some of those Vietnam era military radios are not exactly a whole lot more powerful than the typical cell phone... range of 10-20 or so miles, plus or minus, depending on terrain. Radiation is radiation... and the 2 key metrics are power output and proximity. But, I must stress that I'm no techie (I'm just an operator), otherwise I could precisely determine the potential health hazard myself. So what do you guys think, other than rolling your eyes at an invisible, slow-working undeniable threat.

OK, maybe this is my weakness... but I only wish that were true. I really hope I'm 'just paranoid for no reason'. I'd love to feel that way. But alas, I've talked to too many smart people, and have seen too many things. Plus, my own common sense kicking in, after years of observing & experimenting with various different EMR-emitting equipment. Take an ASR (airport surveillance radar) antenna - those things have 1 megawatt(+) power output, and can actually completely overwhlem the entire AM frequency band on a portable radio, from many thousands of feet away. High power UHF radio transmitters (which have a range of hundreds of miles)? I've seen those penetrate concete walls, and get into the coaxial cable... so that when you're watching TV and the guy talks on the radio, the screen gets all screwy and you can hear what he's saying coming through the TV, every time he keys up.

Radiation really bothers me, man. I just don't trust it. And yes, I know... the satellites are cooking us all, regardless.

 

[Irish Caesar]

Well, the energy of a beam (or photon, if you prefer) of radiation is proportional to its frequency, and a radio transmitter has much lower frequency than visible light. Theoretically, you will get more radiation damage from sunlight than from any radio transmitter.

 

[bhsup]

It's a part of our lives, like it or not. There has not, to my knowledge, been any study to show that cell phones cause any sort of damage due to their wave output. But like I said, it's a part of our lives now and we cannot turn back the clock. A few generations from now, humanity may just evolve some lead-encased testes, but for now we just have to muddle on.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

Cell phone are considered safe, it's non-ionizing raditation.

 

[Irish Caesar]

A few generations from now, humanity may just evolve some lead-encased testes, but for now we just have to muddle on.

The danger to your, um, organs due to lead is far worse than that due to radiation, I believe!

 

[taper]

We have a pretty basic spectrum analyzer at work, and I found that the 802.11g wireless internet in the office and some Zigbee nodes(3 mile range) put out far less energy than the microwave in the break room. And all radiation is not created equal.

 

[Perfection]

Well, the deal is to damage DNA an individual photon of the radiation has to have enough energy to overcome the chemical bonds within the DNA that keeps it together (because the chances of two or more photons hitting at the same time is extremely small). An individual photon's energy is soley a function of frequency. The intensity of something only gives more photons but doesn't effect the energy of each one. As such only radiation above a certain frequency can cause cancer. That certain frequency happens to be in the ultraviolet spectrum. Therefore anything of lower frequency (visable, infared, terahertz, microwave and radio waves) will not cause cancer.

Now, this doesn't mean that all the radiation below that is perfectly safe because there is one avenue that can cause damage. That is thermal effects. This is where the radiation dumps so much heat into a part of your body that it in effect cooks it causing burns and other nastiness. You can get this kind of damage from say sticking your head in a microwave but for the equipment around you your body can easily dissipate the extra heat fast enough to not cause any damage.

So in short, don't worry about it!

 

[plarq]

Heating critical parts of human body is too dangerous, just imagine cooking your brain in an oven.

 

[Perfection]

Heating critical parts of human body is too dangerous, just imagine cooking your brain in an oven.

You're not going to get much heating from a walkie talkie or cell phone or somefin' like that. They just don't put out enough energy.

And actually, the most sensitive organ in your body to thermal radiation is your eyeballs. This is because they lack blood vessels that act as heat exchanges.

 

[Lotus49]

Alright, well - here's how I've always thought about it... imagine your cells & DNA are the contents of a can of soup. You put the soup into a skillet dish, and place it on a stove's range burner. Now, walking unprotected into the chamber of a nuclear reactor (a la K-19, the Widowmaker) would be turning the heat up to max... the soup is going to be bubbling in no time, and the 'physical effect/change' will be obvious very shortly.

BUT, suppose the heat level was much lower. Personally, I prefer cooking my foods at lower heat, but for long periods of time. The job still gets done... even more thoroughly I would argue. So now the question is, does this analogy apply? Or is the 'heat' due to radios, cell phones, etc. so low, that the soup is going to stay at room temperature indefinitely?

I'd like to believe what you say, perfection. But, something just tells me that there are weak links in the body. Something, somewhere is going to wig out due to the damage caused by the EMR passing through you, and next thing you know that damage is replicating itself (AKA cancer). Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. I mean hey, what DOES cause cancer? It's well known that numerous toxic substances WILL cause cancer. How is it accomplished? Via not an incredibly different method, that the toll EMR will have on you, over a period of time.

And as for sunlight... yeah, I thought that the Earth's magnetic field sheltered us from the radiation in space, namely that coming from the Sun on a regular basis. Though with solar flares, it can actually be harmful to humans because the radiation level rises to a point where some of it penetrates the field, at dangerous levels (especially for those at high altitude in planes for some reason). Of course, if we were just out it space with no protection, we wouldn't last long. So, to simply say, "radio waves are lower on the spectrum - don't worry about it", that doesn't quite end the argument IMO.

Plus again, PROXIMITY is everything. We're talking about putting these transmitters RIGHT next to us. This radio as I mentioned above can mess with a computer's speakers (probably the speakers' wiring acting as an antenna, and the frequency modulation and hertz level of the transmission combo... heck if I know), so there is a power there. That same power is penetrating through your body. I don't like it, or trust it. It's easy to overestimate what the body can 'take', over and over, and 'never be affected'. The body IS affected, by virtually everything in it's environment.

 

[taper]

Heating critical parts of human body is too dangerous, just imagine cooking your brain in an oven.

Modern phones are limited to 2 watts radiated. A bright sunny day gives ~1000 watts per square meter. Still worried?

 

[Perfection]

Alright, well - here's how I've always thought about it... imagine your cells & DNA are the contents of a can of soup. You put the soup into a skillet dish, and place it on a stove's range burner. Now, walking unprotected into the chamber of a nuclear reactor (a la K-19, the Widowmaker) would be turning the heat up to max... the soup is going to be bubbling in no time, and the 'physical effect/change' will be obvious very shortly.

BUT, suppose the heat level was much lower. Personally, I prefer cooking my foods at lower heat, but for long periods of time. The job still gets done... even more thoroughly I would argue. So now the question is, does this analogy apply? Or is the 'heat' due to radios, cell phones, etc. so low, that the soup is going to stay at room temperature indefinitely?

It's not the heat that makes nuclear radiation exposure so damaging. It's the energy in a single photon that matters. The photons of electric stuff have so little energy apiece that it isn't going to damage it.

A better analogy would be to say that your DNA is a window and photons are balls. Nuclear radiation would be like baseballs. You throw it at the window and it breaks. Microwave would be like ping pong balls. You could throw ping pong balls at the window all day and it won't do jack squat. As far as window breaking or DNA damaging is concerned it's not how many times a second it gets hit by balls (photons) it's the energy of the individual ball (photon).

 

[Perfection]

I'd like to believe what you say, perfection. But, something just tells me that there are weak links in the body. Something, somewhere is going to wig out due to the damage caused by the EMR passing through you, and next thing you know that damage is replicating itself (AKA cancer). Doesn't seem that far-fetched to me. I mean hey, what DOES cause cancer? It's well known that numerous toxic substances WILL cause cancer. How is it accomplished? Via not an incredibly different method, that the toll EMR will have on you, over a period of time.

Not really. Mutagenic substances damage DNA, EMR at low frequencies doesn't.

And as for sunlight... yeah, I thought that the Earth's magnetic field sheltered us from the radiation in space, namely that coming from the Sun on a regular basis. Though with solar flares, it can actually be harmful to humans because the radiation level rises to a point where some of it penetrates the field, at dangerous levels (especially for those at high altitude in planes for some reason). Of course, if we were just out it space with no protection, we wouldn't last long. So, to simply say, "radio waves are lower on the spectrum - don't worry about it", that doesn't quite end the argument IMO.

All the carcinogenic radiation from space is of higher energy then radio and micro waves.

Plus again, PROXIMITY is everything. We're talking about putting these transmitters RIGHT next to us. This radio as I mentioned above can mess with a computer's speakers (probably the speakers' wiring acting as an antenna, and the frequency modulation and hertz level of the transmission combo... heck if I know), so there is a power there. That same power is penetrating through your body. I don't like it, or trust it. It's easy to overestimate what the body can 'take', over and over, and 'never be affected'. The body IS affected, by virtually everything in it's environment.

Of course your body can take it. The heat generated by this radiation is no different from the heat naturally produced by the body. Your body is well adapted to dissipate that small extra heat.

 

[Irish Caesar]

And as for sunlight... yeah, I thought that the Earth's magnetic field sheltered us from the radiation in space, namely that coming from the Sun on a regular basis. Though with solar flares, it can actually be harmful to humans because the radiation level rises to a point where some of it penetrates the field, at dangerous levels (especially for those at high altitude in planes for some reason). Of course, if we were just out it space with no protection, we wouldn't last long. So, to simply say, "radio waves are lower on the spectrum - don't worry about it", that doesn't quite end the argument IMO.

Ah, but it does. The Sun's radiation is harmful, but not all of the radiation. Sunlight is at a much higher energy than radio waves, but the harmful rays from the Sun are the higher energy ones; the ultraviolet, X-rays, and gammas that get blocked out by the atmosphere and stuff.

Again, the energy of a beam of light is proportional only to its frequency. Higher frequency means higher energy, radio waves are very low frequency.

Plus again, PROXIMITY is everything. We're talking about putting these transmitters RIGHT next to us. This radio as I mentioned above can mess with a computer's speakers (probably the speakers' wiring acting as an antenna, and the frequency modulation and hertz level of the transmission combo... heck if I know), so there is a power there. That same power is penetrating through your body. I don't like it, or trust it. It's easy to overestimate what the body can 'take', over and over, and 'never be affected'. The body IS affected, by virtually everything in it's environment.

Proximity means you're getting more beams or rays or photons or whatever you want to call them (I'm used to saying gammas, but these aren't!), but they're still just as weak. A single bullet will do more damage than a trillion shots from a water gun, even at close range. You're dealing with water guns.