Power of Rush Buy Mansa immortal

[ungy]

If we are to build cooper city and make it any usefull we probably need to build it on plain hill and it will take forever to connect it.

Well unfortunately I'm having some trouble seeing a good path here. I was planning on scouting with an eye to settling where the barbs did. We have ivory and good commerce, so if we get a couple more decent production cities we can take someone (likely Turkey) with cats/jumbos. Just don't see many great sites.

We don't need to hook the copper up right away--just stake our claiim there.
Problem with the plains hill is that Turkey may settle next to copper. If we settle the desert next to copper it's not as good but I think stops that problem.

 

[Mutineer]

I think general plan right now should be:
Writing-alphavit with idea to trade for math/iron working.
then run to constraction.
In a mean time spawn cities on resonable cites.
I think down on the desert rive is a resonable cite somewhere near coast near food resource, not sure where execly. WE need one more worker befor settler I think, do the same MM. Pur some in worker then grow to size 4 and whipe for 2, trowing converted shields into some chariots., then settler.

contnnecting 2 happiness resource will give as happiness and we can think about whiping library for 3 pop after that.

 

[GreyFox]

I thought desert + river always gives floodplains ...

I tend to agree that the copper site is a lost cause right now ... its pretty far, across a vast area of desert and I suspect even if we were to go straight for it from here, Mehmed would beat us to it anyway.

The south seems to be a better expansion direction, the Greeks couldn't have expanded north so fast. Th only problem is with the jungle, but if we are forgoing the copper site, IW will shift up in priority ... we are bound to have iron near one of our city sites.

I agree with Muntineer on the prod plans, but I think we can afford to focus more on chariots to attempt to take the barb city. If luck is smiling on Mansa, we might have Mehmed weakening the barbie defenders for us a bit.

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[Mutineer]

About turnsets. I feel that some people get opset when I criticise there decisions. I do it allways because I want to imrove our game as a team.
If any of you think I could have done something better, please, tell me.

ungy tech choises were correct in my book. His city MM were good.
His worker managment were not so good, as he point it out himself.

He did not count turns, as result he did not connect cities in time and will hot have gold mined in time. Corrent think to do were not to chop or mine, but to lay road to second city and biuld gold mine.

Connect second city = immitiat + 2 commerce. Gold mined and roaded ASAP +1 happiness = + 1 whip or more ties work in capital which is big. Not count +8 commerce when second city grow to size 2.

As I sad, he point it out himself.

 

[GreyFox]

I have no problem with others telling me I played badly, and I would challenge criticism coming my way if I feel my decision is justified. So no problem there, Mutineer.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I think general plan right now should be:
Writing-alphavit with idea to trade for math/iron working.
then run to constraction.
In a mean time spawn cities on resonable cites.
I think down on the desert rive is a resonable cite somewhere near coast near food resource, not sure where execly. WE need one more worker befor settler I think, do the same MM. Pur some in worker then grow to size 4 and whipe for 2, trowing converted shields into some chariots., then settler.

contnnecting 2 happiness resource will give as happiness and we can think about whiping library for 3 pop after that.

Got it, and will play along these lines. Depending on the options, I might post for feedback on city sites before playing.

 

[ungy]

About turnsets. I feel that some people get opset when I criticise there decisions. I do it allways because I want to imrove our game as a team.

For me getting honest feedback about my turnset is one of my main motivations for playing SG. I'm trying to learn here and I don't mind criticism. Often that's a good start to a discussion.

 

[Jet]

Writing-alphavit with idea to trade for math/iron working.
then run to constraction.
In a mean time spawn cities on resonable cites.

OK.

I thought desert + river always gives floodplains ...

There's a bug in the map scripts where if it needs to add a river to fix up a a capital fat cross to make it better and the river goes through desert, the desert doesn't get flood plains. That's the only time you get dead desert rivers.

 

[ungy]

I would still argue for making a try for the copper site and getting a settler out--mm to do a 2 pop whip. We do not have enough production, and we need that site. Better to claim it and not connect it than lose it.

Research wise, I think after writing I usually cut % to 0 until I get lib built.
Costs nothing even if we decide against the lib.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Well that didn't quite work out as planned. Kept getting interrupted, but Alex trumped real life distractions by declaring war on us (after my third turn)!

I made a mistake here, but got away with it: I should have sacrificed the gold or a worker at Djenne in order to be sure of holding the city. I did neither, but our sole chariot defeated Alex’s archer (67% in our favour).

This led me to change to Archery, but it did not complete in time to get a Skirmisher in Djenne to repel this lot:




We lost a chariot, and Alex’s troops have retreated to the forest outside the city. I stopped at the beginning of this turn to let the next player take over, as this seems a good moment to do so (in the circumstances).

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/96651/Rush_Buy_Mansa_2_BC-1360.CivWarlordsSave

 

[Mutineer]

We need granary in timbuki, so we can do 3 pop whipes. WE can not take Alexes cities, but may be we can send skirmirsher/chariot pair to pillage him a bit? Founding 3rd city on river in direcion of alex look more attaractive now, as if we put couple skirmirshers there and let alex attack it we migth loose some trops there.

AI retreate? did we get a new AI with a pach?

 

[ungy]

Founding 3rd city on river in direcion of alex look more attaractive now, as if we put couple skirmirshers there and let alex attack it we migth loose some trops there.

Problem I have with that there is no production up that way. I'm still for sending an SK up with a settler to the bronze city--I know it might seem crazy but I just don't see how we win without that. I'd rather gamble we can get peace with Alex as soon as he talks. If not we can always give him alpha when we get it.

I guess if we want an immortal victory we're really going to have to earn it.

 

[Jet]

Fought off some Greek units and built a couple buildings. Early handoff for discussion of MM and next moves.

0 1360 Timbuktu has Barracks and Skirmisher in queue, but since Alex retreated and I think we have enough immediate defense anyway, I queue a Granary ahead of them. Workers go to hook up Wheat for health (Timbuktu is unhealthy).

1 1320 Alex's stack comes back and kills woodsman warrior fortified in woods 1S of Djenne. Djenne completes Skirmisher and resumes Monument, which I think is a good idea since our defense is adequate. Whip Granary in Timbuktu for 2.
* We have Warior/Skirmisher/2 Chariots in Djenne, 2 Chariots on Gold hill.
* Alex has Shock Chariot (1.5/4), 2 Combat I Archers in woods 1S of Djenne.

2 1280 Alex moves and pillages Ivory. I attack. Lose 2 Chariots at 68% each, then 2 Chariots and Skirmisher win. Timbuktu finishes Granary and resumes Barracks.

3 1240 GL and GW BIDA. 2 Barb Archers next to Gold hill, Chariot + Skirmisher defending.

4 1200 The 2 Barb archers move to Oasis. 2 Chariots attack at 78% and both win. Djenne grows to size 2, Alpha down to 15 with Oasis + Gold. Chop of second forest in Timbuktu brings Barracks to 1. (I chopped it in order to get maximum immediate hammers.) Re-hook up Ivory.

5 1160 Workers build farm near Djenne (it needs food). Timbuktu finishes Barracks and resumes Skirmisher. I move Chariots to Djenne for healing and promote them immediately for maximum hit points. One gets Combat and one gets Flanking (hoping for Sentry later, we need more scouting.) Julius offers OB; maybe we can accept for diplo, but there's no trade route and for now I refuse.

6 1080 Djenne Monument -> Work Boat for Timbuktu's Clams. The work boat for is commerce and to improve a Settler build. Workers move to chop forest south of Djenne, for defense and for the hammers for the work boat. Skirmisher + Warrior sits on Forest tile to defend workers from sneak attack.

7 1040 Last turn of this turn set. Greek Chariot appears. I think the best choice is to stay in place; then Alex will probably move to the Gold hill, then we can attack him. There is a risk in chopping the forest (less defense), but I would do it anyway. The Skirmisher would still have an advantage with 10% fortification plus first strikes.



Here's Timbuktu. The choice of MM for this turn might depend on what we want to build next.



Alex still won't talk. I think the idea of pillaging him is OK, but we need to decide whether Timbuktu should build more units and maybe pillage Alex, or invest in a Settler build. Since we've lost a couple units I think it would probably be better to just defend, build a Settler, and hopefully grab Iron, or Copper. By the time the Settler is done, hopefully we can trade for IW and either move the Settler to Iron, or toward the Copper, scouting with a Chariot first.

 

[ungy]

I still vote for whipping the settler when can. Send the SK ahead.

I think we have to plan a path that gives us an empire that has a chance.
Planning for war here with what we have is IMHO a sure loser. We are not too far from alpha--there's a good chance we can buy peace with that. So I say plan for the peace that we need to get to have any chance at all and whip the settler. Skip the pillaging.

By the way, I wouldn't continue the WB. We have so many urgent needs that we should wait on that. Most of the settler will be done by whip anyway.

 

[ungy]

Actually there are chances for victory I think if we end up without any more expansion. I think we would be too weak for a "normal" expansion war but could capture the barb city, put down 3 more mediocre cities, and go for cultural. We might have to engineer a dogpile on Alex to make that happen.

 

[GreyFox]

The workboat is for what purpose anyway? Exploration? It will be remove from the queue (in case I forget and accidentally invest more hammer into it).

Looking at the save, I would do the following on inherited turn:
- Djenne: switch workboat to a skimisher, followed by another skimisher
- Timbuktu: change pop working on single-coin fishes to single-food coasts, and produce one more charriot before whipping the a settler next.

I will stop at Alphabet (currently at 7 turns with -3gpt@10, with some MM and the inevitable whip and decrease in science, I think it will be 7~8 turns).

 

[Jet]

The workboat is for what purpose anyway? Exploration?

The work boat for is commerce and to improve a Settler build.

Most of the settler will be done by whip anyway.

OK, let's count. I will assume the forest gets chopped.
0. Chop -> 3+27H in D.
1. D finishes WB, T Skirmisher -> Settler 8H.
2. WB moves, Settler 13H.
3. WB moves, T switches to Skirmisher for 1 turn, grows to size 6.
4. WB hooks up Clam, whip 3 pop -> 100H.
We see that you're right to suggest that the WB would not affect a Settler if one was begun immediately. The only short-term benefit would be for T to be able to work a 3C food tile when regrowing. Working 3 coast tiles after whipping would probably save 1 turn on Alphabet (it would for sure if we didn't run out of money), but T would still be food-positive even if that was done without hooking up the Clams.

 

[GreyFox]

Hmm ... I see your calculations, but we are at war, with only 1 skimisher and 2 chariots (which don't have fortified bonus by the way) isn't exactly my idea of being safe. I'm still inclined to switching the workboat to skimisher. Having a settler out early is just giving Alex more targets without proper defenders.

My idea for Timbuktu is:

1. work on coastal instead of fishes to get more commerce and slow growth (happy cap)
2. Produce chariot
3. by the time chariot is almost finish, re-grow to past 1 happy cap
4. chariot and redshirt appear simultaneously, produce settler.
5. Whip settler for 2 pops.

 

[Mutineer]

Try to whipe settler for 3 pop, you still can MM for 30 shields overflow and with granary if will grow fast to size 3.

just put less then 40 into settler when city still happy and switch to max grow producing something else.
with 4 food ties it is more efficient, even if there 2 unhappy at size 6.

 

[GreyFox]

Alex sent more chariots, some of our units died with favorable odds , but alex has more casualties, and we have a few retreats (still a good thing, even though in the first place we have better odds), like this one:

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I did what I said I would do, MM'ed Timbuktu for skimmishers, chariot, and then settler until alphabet is in:

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I stopped as planned. Timbuktu can now whip the settler, so Muntineer may want to do so before pressing enter. Depending on you want commerce or you want hammer overflow, the pop working on 1F3C coastal tile can be reassigned to 1F3H mine:

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I checked the trade situation (nothing done). JC is not willing to give us anything, so he most likely is close to getting alpha himself:

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Both Mehmed and Gandhi offered the same 3 techs, not sure if Mehmed is willing to give IW instead.

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Alex is willing to talk ... but I guess we aren't

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