PowerBar Training Utility

[Lackofthought]

You can't do that - SU applies to ALL units of the tribe. I tried 'filtering' the units to just workers, but my Modern Armor was still able to move across tiles without roads for more than 3 tiles.

Darn... hmm oh well

 

[Nexushyper]

I do have one very minor quibble with the loading screen. You use check boxes to indicate what flavor of Civ3 to load. Check boxes should be used when multiple selections are valid. When having a mutually exclusive selection, a radio button should be used instead. Since it makes no sense to load for multiple versions, the check boxes should be radio buttons. Like I said very minor.

Hmm, ok. So now people are complaining obout what coding objects I use!! I wont flame on you, however, I will say you have no right to tell a person what they should and should not use in the making of thier program. You could be Bill Gates himself and still have no right. I prefer check boxes over radio buttons and that is why I continue to use them. I do know the difference between radio buttons and check boxes and how they are used in programming but I don't like radio buttons for this programs first screen.

I can tell you know a bit about programming and let me teach you some more. Never insult people by assuming they don't know what they are doing. In fact never assume. There is no written programming law that says thou shalt not use checkboxes when radio buttons are desgined just for this. Did you ever stop to think I know raio buttons would work just fine here yet I wanted to use checkboxes? Just a thought, never assume.

Sorry for getting upset but that just really upsets me when someone tries to assume I don't know what I am doing. Yes radio buttons are the correct object to use however, I used check boxes..... build a bridge and get over it cuz I ain't changing them I LIKE THEM!!


With that I'll be gone till 2 June. After that I will release a version will no buttons and everything will be check boxes!!!

 

[Aethon]

Hmm, ok. So now people are complaining obout what coding objects I use!! I wont flame on you, however, I will say you have no right to tell a person what they should and should not use in the making of thier program.

I never told you what to do, like I said previously it was a minor quibble.

I prefer check boxes over radio buttons and that is why I continue to use them. I do know the difference between radio buttons and check boxes and how they are used in programming but I don't like radio buttons for this programs first screen.

Well then continue to use them then. Many experienced programmers do not know when a radio button should be used and when a check box should be used.

I can tell you know a bit about programming and let me teach you some more. Never insult people by assuming they don't know what they are doing. In fact never assume.

I'm sorry you took my suggestion the wrong way, but I never assumed you did not know what you were doing. Oversights and ommissions tend to work their way into reasonably complex programs such as PowerBar. Pointing out a mistake--as I see it--is not even close to equivalent to insulting your intelligence.

There is no written programming law that says thou shalt not use checkboxes when radio buttons are desgined just for this. Did you ever stop to think I know raio buttons would work just fine here yet I wanted to use checkboxes? Just a thought, never assume.

Law? No, certainly nothing that strong. Obviously, since you have them working, checkboxes do work just fine. However the user interface guide for every widget set I've ever seen says that they are being used improperly. See:

The Microsoft Windows User Experience: http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/books/winguide/ch00a.htm
"An option button, also referred to as a radio button, represents a single choice within a limited set of mutually exclusive choices. That is, the user can choose only one of a set of options."
"A check box represents an independent or non-exclusive choice."
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch08c.asp

Java Look and Feel Design Guidlines: http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/index.html
"A checkbox is a control that represents a setting or value with an on or off choice. The setting of an individual checkbox is independent of other checkboxes--that is, more than one checkbox in a set can be checked at any given time."
http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/HIG.Controls3.html
"A radio button represents an exclusive choice within a set of related options. Within a set of radio buttons, only one button can be on at any given time."
http://java.sun.com/products/jlf/ed2/book/HIG.Controls4.html

Apple User Experience Reference Library: http://devworld.apple.com/referencelibrary/UserExperience/index.html
"Use radio buttons for a set of mutually exclusive but related choices."
"Use checkboxes to indicate one or more options that must be either on or off."
http://devworld.apple.com/documenta...html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000359/TPXREF195

GNOME Human Interface Guidelines: http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/
"Clicking a check box should not affect the values of any other controls."
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/controls.html#controls-check-boxes
"Radio buttons are used in groups to select from a mutually exclusive set of options."
http://developer.gnome.org/projects/gup/hig/1.0/controls.html#controls-radio-buttons

Finally, The Interface Hall of Shame:
http://digilander.libero.it/chiediloapippo/Engineering/iarchitect/shame.htm
Note the first entry in the category "Selecting the wrong control"

Sorry for getting upset but that just really upsets me when someone tries to assume I don't know what I am doing. Yes radio buttons are the correct object to use however, I used check boxes..... build a bridge and get over it cuz I ain't changing them I LIKE THEM!!

Fine, don't change them. It is your program. However it would be simpler to say, "I prefer how check boxes look there, so I will not change them." Instead, you have gotten yourself a bit worked up about it to no particular end. So, since you know a bit about programming, let me teach you some more. When writing a program that has a decent public exposure, sometimes requests for changes, features etc... will not align with what you want the program to do. It is imperative to grow a thick skin about it and say "No, that is not how I'm going to do it" without getting worked up about it, because I assure my report will not be the last one you don't like.

 

[NateDawgNY]

@Aethon
Since you're still new to CFC, let me educate you. You have no right to charge onto the scene and offend the only person who has volunteered his time and effort into making PowerBar compatable with C3C. So you have knowledge of programming, whupdedo. This is no reason nor excuse for you to act this way.
-nuff said

 

[jeannie]

This is beginning to sound like flaming to me.

Aethon - you have a point, and, in fact, you said it was a small nit. But I can also understand that Nexushyper got irritated, and I suspect he would have held off on posting his reply if he weren't leaving for his vacation.

So, let's stop the discussion about radio buttons. As a user rather than a programmer, I've seen checkboxes used for 'mutually exclusive choices' over the dozen or more years that Windows has been around that I never even noticed the distinction!

 

[Aethon]

I appreciate what Nexushyper has done. I pointed out a very minor issue, which I labeled as such, and Nexushyper flamed me for it. I responded with evidence showing that I didn't just make this claim about radio buttons up. I had the right to point the minor issue out. I also have absolute right to defend myself from the flame from Nexushyper. Likewise Nexushyper has an absolute right not to take my suggestion and continue using checkboxes.

I will continue to use PowerBar, and will report any other bugs I come across. However as far as I am concerned the issue of checkboxes vs radio buttons is moot since Nexushyper said he will not change them.

@NateDogNY
Let me educate you, it doesn't matter whether I'm "new" to CFC or not. I had a minor suggestion--which apparently could have been phrased better--and was flamed for it. Just as you have a right to post your feelings about what I've said, I have the right to post in the first place.

EDIT: Had a couple typos

 

[Nexushyper]

I responded with evidence showing that I didn't just make this claim about radio buttons up

I know. I took college programming classes and know that this is what is suggested. However, if everyone followed what is suggested and taught to be 'the way' then women would never have been able to vote, no new patients woudl have been made past the early 1900's and man would never have split the atom.

I do apoligize for flaming as I was a bit on edge with everything going on. For those that don't know I'm in the Air Force and a guy I know in the Air Force was killed the other day. Plus other stuff I do at work that deals with the war is getting to me. Just please, don't preach to me what objects I should be using based on what Microsoft, Java, and others say. (Besides if you listen to them then you believe Windows doesn't have a back door!! HAHAHA. Or you believe Java is teh best web coding tool... for crying out loud you can't compile it!!) It is only thier suggestion and I have been taught through thier courses and know this. You could have PMed me and asked first before bringing this to the thread.

Again, I apligize for venting on you however, as I can tell you know programming, you should also know not to point these things out on other peoples works as all programming classes teach you. "This is teh suggested way and most practiced way." They never tell you that it is THE way. Yes I know radio buttons worked better, but I liked the look of checkboxes instead! Again, had you PMed me I would have thanked you for bringing this up and politely told you all this.

Anyways, no new versions of PB for a few weeks. Vacation for a week, recover from what happened, start working ina new shop and who knows what else.

 

[Aethon]

I know. I took college programming classes and know that this is what is suggested.

I was not aware you have had college classes. I think you'll agree with me that there are many programmers who haven't taken college classes, and not studied GUI design who wouldn't know that is what is suggested.

I do apoligize for flaming as I was a bit on edge with everything going on. For those that don't know I'm in the Air Force and a guy I know in the Air Force was killed the other day. Plus other stuff I do at work that deals with the war is getting to me.

I am sorry I went off the deep end too.

Just please, don't preach to me what objects I should be using based on what Microsoft, Java, and others say. (Besides if you listen to them then you believe Windows doesn't have a back door!! HAHAHA. Or you believe Java is teh best web coding tool... for crying out loud you can't compile it!!) It is only thier suggestion and I have been taught through thier courses and know this. You could have PMed me and asked first before bringing this to the thread.

I'll PM you next time. However I would like to point out two things. First, just because Microsoft has abhorent security doesn't mean they don't know their GUIs. The way I see it is they have spent lots of time and money on these standards, and since all the guidelines I've seen agree, my feeling is unless I see or can provide evidence to the contrary they are probably right. Second, Java can be compiled to machine code, see http://gcc.gnu.org/java/ and http://www.excelsior-usa.com/jet.html Granted neither of these are perfect, but my prediction is gcj will within a year or two be pretty darn good. Also the JIT compiler used in recent Java VMs is still a compiler, just not in the sense you are most familiar with.

 

[NateDawgNY]

Well I do apologize for going off on you Aethon. I've been trying to help Nexushyper get everything he needed to complete PowerBar, so when you went off on him, I did the same to you. It was a minor issue, and I shouldn't have done it, so once again, my apologies.

 

[Lackofthought]

In the first post it says that it does not work with the Conquests, but does it work with Civ-content for other maps that have different rules? I assume not...but I thought I would ask

 

[NateDawgNY]

It is fully compatible with Civ 3 Conquests.

 

[Nexushyper]

It works with C3C but not the 'Conquests' that come with it. As for other Civ-Content. I.E. scenarios, it will work on a case-by-case basis. What I mean by that is it may work on one scenario but not another. Only way to find out is try them. But I do know for sure the 'Conquests' will not work for PowerBar. Does that make sense?

Ok, I'm out plane leaves in 5 hours bye!!

 

[jeannie]

Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to view the draft documention I uploaded at .

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PowerBar_4_Draft_Documentation.zip

I'm looking for corrections, suggestions to make it more usable, etc. Please PM me or post here.

Edit : NexusHyper has added the Help file into the package when you download PowerBar, so I've asked the forum managers to remove this old copy of the file.

 

[knac1055]

Just wondering if anyone has had a chance to view the draft documention I uploaded at http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7...cumentation.zip.

I'm looking for corrections, suggestions to make it more usable, etc. Please PM me or post here.

link does not work

 

[jeannie]

Thanks, knac1055 - try the link now - I re-pasted the link, and it works for me now - let me know if you can download the file now.

 

[knac1055]

it works now

 

[jeannie]

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads7/PowerBarHELP.zip

I've uploaded an updated set of documentation for PowerBar 4, this time as a standard WINDOWS HELP file. It's still a draft, so I'd appreciate feedback here in the forum or by PM (private message).

Thanks to Aethon for the feedback via PM to my WORD document version of the documentation.

 

[grognard]

Jeannie - The documentation looks great (the word file - haven't looked at the help file yet). One addition that I am attaching as a MSWord file. It's on how to use the NEUTRAL/ENEMY/FRIEND box along with the use of the SHIFT/ALT/CTRL keys. I've been using PB since it first appeared on the forum many years ago, and the use of the Global Keys (as I call them) really simplifies it's use.

 

[jeannie]

Thanks, grognard! With your document, I was able to get the Friend/Neutral/Enemy thingie to work with C3C. I'll update the documentation for it, but I'll probably update the HELP file before I do any more work on the DOC file, and I'll wait until I have some more comments (I've gotten some in PM).

I'm not sure yet whether to use the DOC file format or the HELP file format - each has its drawbacks (especially since I'm using a help file utility that's a trial version). Any comments, anyone?

 

[NateDawgNY]

I would say that the doc file is the best. It's more universal.