Praetorian Vs. Immortal which UU do you prefer?

[Elandal]

Spearmen require Hunting and Copper. Most people equate this to Bronze Working, although technically you could have Hunting, no BW, and trade copper from some other civ to train your spears.

 

[Mr. Civtastic]

Or start with hunting and mining. You'd be one off just like Cyrus is one off with Animal Husbandry.

 

[Thedrin]

Only if you're Germany or Russia.

 

[Tavenier]

Praetorians, but that's probably because I like to play Rome. And I think that goes for many of the voters.

 

[civvin449]

Indeed, Tavenier, it goes for me too.
I prefer Rome above Persia

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

I like immortals because a rush will be so much more devastating with them. And yes, the proper way to use them is to pillage the enemy immediately as soon as you complete the first one. Preferably pillage their metals. Pretoraens are a lot easier to use I guess, because they last a lot longer (as was the case historically). But in multiplayer, the axeman factor tips the balance to the side of the immortals, because humans aren't going to defend with 2 archers per city, which only usually has a modified strength of 8.4-ish in a 40% culture building.

 

[Watiggi]

Or start with hunting and mining. You'd be one off just like Cyrus is one off with Animal Husbandry.

I think Cyrus needs The Wheel as well actually (which is required for Chariots or something I think, not sure).

 

[Crighton]

I like immortals because a rush will be so much more devastating with them. And yes, the proper way to use them is to pillage the enemy immediately as soon as you complete the first one. Preferably pillage their metals. Pretoraens are a lot easier to use I guess, because they last a lot longer (as was the case historically). But in multiplayer, the axeman factor tips the balance to the side of the immortals, because humans aren't going to defend with 2 archers per city, which only usually has a modified strength of 8.4-ish in a 40% culture building.

I disagree to a small extent, it's just as easy to pop a few Axemen into the stack since they're cheaper than the Praet's anyway. And if you have barracks, get a great general . . . . you could apply the promos to the Praet's.

 

[gunkulator]

Against the AI, the Immortal is clearly easier to use. You won't need barracks, won't need to hunt for barbs, won't be up against more than 2 unpromoted archers per city, won't need to deal with cultural defense, won't have to wait for forges or growth to produce enough hammers.

 

[FoxTrot12]

The only time I would rather have praets is against Alexander (or Shaka). Other than that, a large enough amount of immortals can take spears, regardless of the wimpy "I have a bonus".

 

[ABigCivFan]

I am playing a new game: Augustus Rome/Deity/Small/Pangeea/Normal speed.

The AIs got tons of swords/spears everywhere, multiple metal sources; many cities founded on hills; and Longbows by 600 BC. I got the Praets going around 1500 BC. There had been so much fighting both with cities and in the fields against all kinds of units. The AIs had the superior numbers but i got the high kill/loss ratio. I was thinking, wow this would have been impossible if I were the Persians. Again, Praets saved the day, capturing 3 nice cities (2 founded on hills), spawned 2 GGs (settled in the 2 unit producing cities), built Great Library and Heroic Epic, 1 GS all by 300BC. I now(150BC) have a well promoted 15+ praet army and catapults ready to do more damage.

With the Cre+Org traits + loot from cities, i was running 100% science to get the key techs (Literature, construction, Cal) and staying close to the AIs. This is the first game on this setting that I actually have a good chance of winning.

 

[Watiggi]

I do wonder how would you go with the Persians though. I underestimated them once too often. How early they can come into the game and how much of a bonus that is, is what's most deceptive with them. Maybe you might get a few coming out more early and be able to cut off more quickly. You'd be stuffed by 500bc though (when they get Longbows), but I do wonder what the early game would be like. Could you get an even earlier leg up?

 

[karr1255]

Immortals for me.

Earlier available and horses are easier to get than iron. And if we figure in traits I like Cyrus much more than either Romans.

 

[douglas_21]

I like the immortals- easier and faster to set up a rush and you can upgrade them to knights. That double movement and fast set-up make quick victories obtainable...they're what I go for.

 

[Boodler]

...
I pick Praetorian over Immortal for the following reasons:

3. Defensive bonus on hill or in forrest/Jungles.
...

Do you mean they (Immortals) don't get defensive bonuses in Warlords ? In the non - warlords Civ 4, they do get the bonus, have they changed that in warlords ?

 

[Watiggi]

No they haven't changed. Immortals do get the defensive bonuses, including Warlords.

 

[Darwin420]

I voted for Praetorians only because I'm a big fan of anything Roman. They are just a cool unit, and I like the thought of my legions of Praetorians crushing the enemy so much more than my mass of Immortals trampling them to death...

 

[FoxTrot12]

Trampling to death sounds good to me...

 

[fed1943]

Just noticed this thread now, very interesting.

Looking at both units, inside their civs, I think it's easier - high level,but deity -
immortals open the way to victory, but if they don't it's a defeat.

Roman praets are safer,indeed.

I'm trying now, immortal level, some Cyrus rushes under the philosophie "immortals are countered, not by spears, but by bronze/iron" : start war with
just 1/2 available immortal.

(BTW, I would like to get the initial save from ABigCivFan' game - day 15'post -
is it right to ask it,please?).

Best regards,

 

[ABigCivFan]

(BTW, I would like to get the initial save from ABigCivFan' game - day 15'post )

OK,will try to post the initial game save tonight. Very good and tight map. The key to these settings is geting the 2nd production city going ASAP. I went worker-worker(chopped)-settler(chopped)-Chariot-Barracks. Settled second city(horse+gold) around 2700BC right next to the capital. Tech wise-> BW, Wheel, Farming, AH, IW, writing,alphabet,literature. Traded alphabet for several low level techs.

the worker improvements are also synced precisely with the tech research. chop 1 worker, 1 settler; then build road/mine on plain hill, then farm on corn, then hook up horse and etc. When chopping, have 1 worker chop 1 tree, do not combine 2 workers and chop the same tree(this wastes worker-turns because 2 workers are entering the same forest tiles each time and waste turns).

I lost the first time cause I let Won Kon to blaze through tech tree(although I did manage to eliminate Spain very early).

I realized that on these settings you have to attack several AIs early(to slow them down) not just 1 or 2, especially those Financial Civs. Scout out early for good cities, and plan your attack according. I could not affort let my army sit any round or waste time moving them around too much due to poor planning. Taking 2 to 3 cities from each neighboring civ is the way to go.

So when I play this map the 2nd time, i played with high efficiency and precision. Got the Praets going around 1700BC, took 2 Spanish cities, sued for peach and techs for 10 turns, heal the troops. During these 10 turns, attacked Aztec, taking 2 cities with nice resources then sued for peach and tech. Right after peace with Spain expired, captured the 3rd Spanish city. At this point around 700BC, all AIs got longbows. So I swing my forces to the East and ready to attack Korea, build HE in capital and researching construction for Catapults while the troops are in transition. My high kill/loss ratio got me 2 GGs, settled them in 2 production cities. Already whipped Granary/Momuments/Libraries/Baracks in 3 other captured cities and they are producing Praets/Chariot. 600 gold from War loot, running science @ 100% (-55 g/turn) to get Construction.

Greek is the weakest and farthest, so I had to leave him for tech trading, keeping him pleased. Korea is soaring in tech and land, but low on power, it is a juice target.

Chariot is a very good supporting unit, i have several medic II/formation chariots to heal and deal with Axeman and pillaging chariots, some garrion captured cities.

Will try to finish this game by this weekend.