Pre-bronze age collapse unique civs thread: suggestions for unique civs.

[Lazy sweeper]

Everybody knows about the Bronze age civilization collapse, that went off in Europe, some says because of the Eksa - Iceland vulcano eruption that brought a cold spell lasting 20 years in the whole northern emisphere, pushing northern tribes south, and displacing them - This coincides also with the fall of Troy more or less.
In The Americas it's about pre-columbian civs, with the Wari culture as one of the known pre Inca civs around there. The Olmecs I think were also pre-colombian.
I'm not sure the two timelines are aligned.
Asia is a black hole to me... China was split into at least 6 major civs per Han... India had also at least 3 major hubs... Indonesia, pacific...??

But I can speak for the European at least a with a bit of confidence.
The "cyclopean" builders where identified with the Sea people by some historians, but in reality just some pockets of Med civs kept the knowledge of building with the polygonal wall technique.
And all of them disappeared after the bronza age collapse.

These are the Shardans, Shekeleks, Pelesets, Ionian, Lukka, Lycian in the eastern part. Spain and Morocco, Algeria had other civs (Andalus.., Canarian, Atlas)
All these populations performed inhumation, whilst the northerners, performed barbecues. No trees in the Mediterranean, vs lot of trees in the north.

Rome did barbecue their dead. Only after contact with Egypt they went back to inhumation.
Etruscan performed inhumation.
Carthaginian, Mycenean, inhumation.
And the gods. After the Bronze Age collapse and fall of Troy, Zeus was the new god, and all Cyclopean gods were removed.
Titans, etc.

This Age collapse has been brutal, a real Age Reset, much like the Fall of Rome Reset, althought in Africa and Middle East it coincided with the Golden Age, and born of Islam.
So it's really hard to me to pinpoint a global Age reset. Also the Bronze Age collapse didn't affect Southern Emisphere civilization at all...

Anyway, if there was a new Age shift implemented, which would be yours preferred civs to add??

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

wait you're positing a Bronze Age collapse crisis that would split the Antiquity Age into two: pre-Collapse and post-collapse, which of the two are you looking for civs on?

 

[Lazy sweeper]

wait you're positing a Bronze Age collapse crisis that would split the Antiquity Age into two: pre-Collapse and post-collapse, which of the two are you looking for civs on?

Pre-collapse, it seemed obvious, even ifmany of these civs endured for parts of the accepted date for the late bronze age collapse, all of them
went -dark mode- at one point on, being incorporated into other empires etc- Rome being a giant accellerator for their departure, same thing with the Han in
the East, where as I said, I have a kind of black hole there...

And I mean, Historically, it's one point that effectively makes a little sense to have a civ-switch.
The End of Antiquity I'd be with the Spread of Christianity. Theodosio and the spread of Islam I guess?
But it hasnt been in my eyes nearly as much disruptive as the Bronze age collapse---

The Exploration Age collapse of the Americas instead has been HUGE---- so many civs disappeared in the Americas....

It's the Age shift that makes little sense as it is implemented... this is a somewhat linked argument.
I'm looking for both parts of the collapse... and anyway there is also an Apocalyptic eruption argument to make... 20 years are 20 years... no food... freezing temperatures... no SUN... when did that happen at the end of the Antiquity Age again? Or the Exploration Age?
Revolution is the only thing that make the last Age shift happen, but it's the consequence of mass destruction of hundreds of tribes and small nations in the Americas...
with a paint of white and red stripes to make it look acceptable, but that id what it is... it's the Exploration Age collapse, but not of the conquerers, it's the end of the conquered... the only "natural" event that triggered it, is the mass Black plague in europe, unchecked mass migration, the little ice age... irish potato famine etc...
it's not as bad as the ancient eruption but similar... multiply city population by 10, malary, and you have a recipe for disaster..

 

[ehecatzin]

I also found it oddly written, you want to split Antiquity into two ages? if so, no from me. I'd rather see Antiquity expanded to feel like it actually encompases both Ancient and Classical world, right now, It's a bit mushed together.

As for ideas like the bronze age collapse, or a super volcano, I think those could be imeplemented as Crisis, which we need more, and more flavourful ones, and as for civs, I want to see Olmecs and Wari, the Americas have tons of possible civs, that would be a shame to not use with civ VII.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The way to make this work is to dump the rigid Ages entirely, and regard the Bronze Age Collapse as one of several triggers that might cause a Civ to so completely Implode that it deserves a new title and Civ Model.

That way, you are not tied to a set of dates that are, frankly, only applicable to part of the world (the usually accepted 12th century BCE dates for the Bronze Age Collapse are right in the middle of the semi-mythical Shang Dynasty in China, and I don't believe anyone has made any connection to southeast Asia or Africa south and west of Egypt). AND you are not necessarily tied to arbitrary Civ-Switching: if you can weather the Collapse like Egypt or Mycenean Greece, you can keep playing a (much modified) Egypt or Greece.

 

[Evie]

The bigger problem with the bronze age collapse, even if you dump the rigid ages entirely, is that the Bronze age collapse is about three techs into antiquity, ie, at the very start of the game. There really isn't time, game-wise, to let a player enjoy a pre-bronze-age-collapse civ, then switch into a separate antiquity civ.

You,d have to massively lengthen the early tech tree, which comes with a whole load of other difficulties.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The way to make this work is to dump the rigid Ages entirely, and regard the Bronze Age Collapse as one of several triggers that might cause a Civ to so completely Implode that it deserves a new title and Civ Model.

That way, you are not tied to a set of dates that are, frankly, only applicable to part of the world (the usually accepted 12th century BCE dates for the Bronze Age Collapse are right in the middle of the semi-mythical Shang Dynasty in China, and I don't believe anyone has made any connection to southeast Asia or Africa south and west of Egypt). AND you are not necessarily tied to arbitrary Civ-Switching: if you can weather the Collapse like Egypt or Mycenean Greece, you can keep playing a (much modified) Egypt or Greece.

if either continious Era system (Civ 2-6) or Ages (7) are a no go. what are 'progression system' that should be adopted? and about civ transition?

Also Age Transition and it ended with civ changes. player should also begin with only a handful of settlements + new seat. previous cities owned in previous Age should becomes independent factions that can be re-integrated manually.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

I also found it oddly written, you want to split Antiquity into two ages? if so, no from me. I'd rather see Antiquity expanded to feel like it actually encompases both Ancient and Classical world, right now, It's a bit mushed together.

As for ideas like the bronze age collapse, or a super volcano, I think those could be imeplemented as Crisis, which we need more, and more flavourful ones, and as for civs, I want to see Olmecs and Wari, the Americas have tons of possible civs, that would be a shame to not use with civ VII.

No... I was thinking of just Civs and not splitting Ages in the abrupt sense that inquire a civ switch...
I am also thinking in terms of a normal pangea map, with all civs randomly placed, so any East pre bronze age collapse
civs could ancounter one from Europe, America or Africa.

It's also one historical point in which at least some kind of real world shuffle happened, this is consequential
and the Age switch etc should be talked in to a separate thread, here is just
for the Civs themselves.
If the Shang happens to be in the same map of the Shardans... I don't think it would be much of a problem
more than it being just next to the Romans...

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

No... I was thinking of just Civs and not splitting Ages in the abrupt sense that inquire a civ switch...
I am also thinking in terms of a normal pangea map, with all civs randomly placed, so any East pre bronze age collapse
civs could ancounter one from Europe, America or Africa.

Most of these civs would still exist under the current Antiquity Age, if we're going by the technology tree. So yes, it would require a splitting of the Antiquity Age.

If any age were going to be split, I think the Exploration Age would be needed more.

 

[Lebo44]

I am surprised Lukka has got 0 votes so far...

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The bigger problem with the bronze age collapse, even if you dump the rigid ages entirely, is that the Bronze age collapse is about three techs into antiquity, ie, at the very start of the game. There really isn't time, game-wise, to let a player enjoy a pre-bronze-age-collapse civ, then switch into a separate antiquity civ.

You,d have to massively lengthen the early tech tree, which comes with a whole load of other difficulties.

Yeah, I'm treating this as a theoretical exercise only, because to even begin to make it work I think would require pushing back the start date to legitimately include deeper Tech/Civics development, and that in turn makes more and more of the 'Civs' problematical because we just don't have enough information for more than (semi-) educated guesses for many of them.

And, of course, borrowing a 'Neolithic Start' concept from HK would start another firestorm of complaints from the peanut gallery . . .

 

[Siptah]

I think a bactrian civ would be super nice. But not necessarily a Bronze Age one like Margiana/BMAC, more like a Taxila one.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think a bactrian civ would be super nice. But not necessarily a Bronze Age one like Margiana/BMAC, more like a Taxila one.

Right now, Central Asia as a whole is a Major Hole in the Civ list for Civ VII. We have only Mongolia, the old standby, in Exploration, but none of the various and very important Antiquity Civs like the Scythians, Xiong-Nu, Kushans, Bactrians, etc. Just one out of the many candidates would be nice . . .