Make a case for ONE unique civ that you feel needs more attention.

Any non-colonial civilizations of the western hemisphere.
Well, preferably ones with attested languages, endonyms, settlement names, and leaders - so not the Norte Chico, Nazca,, Chavin, Huari/Wari, Tihunanica, Olmecs, Toltecs, Teohutacan, Pueblan-Ancestral Civilization (previously called Anazaszi), Mississippian Mound Builders, and whoever built that huge city under the Amazon Rainforest.
 
Etruscans are cool, yeah.
Etruscan are just an Italic variant of the Gauls... interestingly they shared the same bull god as the Maltese civs.

The Shardana worshipped Isis/Osiris, completely on another ballgame... they were for a period the most devastating mercenary force of the Mediterranean.
Some scholars dispute their dispute shared between the Sikali (Sicilian) and the Dan-an ( Dan-ish??? no idea here)...

There is also the mith of Atlantis that has been debated about the pillar of Hercules being located between Sicily and Tunisia, making Sardinia westward of them, a possible candidate for a lost civ..

Sardinian is not Italian. Its root languages are Aramaic (semitic). Many words like Pella- asgi- are complex constructions very hard to decode. I tried to give a glimpse into it.

For traductions, use this dictionary.

And, yeah, both Romans and Greeks are pretty proud of their origins... they don't like being scholars by someone else...Ask them to explain then why the whole Pantheon of the Greeks
is mirrored in one single region in Sardinia... and no, it wasn't the 'Spartans'. They re-settled in the eastern part of Sardinia when they left Greece for good at the beginning of the Roman conquests...
Athens yes, it's a story on its own, not part of the Sardinian myth, that mythological Athens also it wasn't in 'Greece'...




I think those warriors used also a lot of Obsidian in their weapon, as the largest Obsidian reservoir in Europe is in Sardinia, and they have a long tradition of making weapons with Obsidian...
Probably they were brilliant Skirmichers, as were many Island nations of the old world, with the best of all being the Cretans, being used as mercy even by the romans.
Fast ships for raids, no idea what shape or form, nothing but a few sketch on stone has been depicted, not decisively sure, but it seems they had triangular sails.
The musicians priests used conical hats, and used the Egyptian Sistrum in some statuettes. So a strong Religious traits might also be appropriate.
Osiris/Isis is the Bull's eye. So there is a connection with the Mycenaeans. But they were very much focused on the Eye.
 
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Who would be their leader? As I recall reading, no verifiable leade is attested. Nor is an endonym ot confirmed, nor is a language (these etymologies of Latin/Roman terms seem to be sketchy and wild hypothesis, as are Aramaic, or any Semitic language, being spoken in Sardiia before Punic, much, much later), the Spartan link is sketchy. Shardana just appears to be from a list of peoples the Egyptians from the Ramesside Dynasties listed off as, "groups of Sea Peoples," and the names are likelly Egyptian, or heavy Egyptifications. The Philistines were LIKELY of Sea People origin, but their roots are very murky, and they may just have likely been of Mycenaean origin. I'm all for new, intriguing, and unrepresented civ's, but not highly mythologized ones, of which a few others have been proposed here, as well.
Hercules? No, jokes aside.... Sisara is the name of the first warrior king.... its name gave origin to 'Ceasar' as an adjective for... king...

Three thousand two hundred years after his deeds, the rough and mighty leader Sisera still causes shivers of uneasiness among Jewish children who read the Bible. If that day in Megiddo (Galilee), with his 900 chariots, he had overwhelmed Barak's army, it would have been a disaster for the Israelites. Instead - as the 'Song of Deborah' narrates - at the end of the epic day Sisera was treacherously killed, pierced in the temple with a tent peg by a woman, Jael (Yael), whom he believed to be a friend. Who Sisera (in Hebrew Sisra') was, has never been known exactly.

The aura of mystery surrounding its memory is perhaps beginning to lift now with the publication of a book by Professor Adam Zertal of the University of Haifa (‘The Secret of Sisera’), the fruit of twenty years of excavations and research in one of the most enigmatic archaeological sites in Israel: the ruins of al-Ahwat, on a hill overlooking the Via Maris, the artery that already at the time of the Pharaohs led from the Mediterranean coast towards the esplanade of Megiddo (the ‘Armageddon’ of apocalyptic prophecies) and towards Galilee. From the integrated study of archaeological finds, Egyptian hieroglyphics, Akkadian documents and the biblical text, Zertal suggests that al-Ahwat was a fortified Nuragic citadel – the most imposing in the area, at its time – built by the Shardana: a people of navigators and warriors who came from Sardinia. They had been fierce enemies of the Egyptians, who depicted them with a helmet on which two horns stood out. But once defeated, they agreed to become their vassals and to garrison strategic locations on their behalf. For example, al-Ahwat: where the commander Sisera – according to Zertal – would have established his headquarters. Its name is not Semitic and evokes Shardana roots, says the scholar. As proof, he cites Nuragic finds from Crete that mention a religious figure called Saisara. "Whoever built al-Ahwat must have been a megalomaniac", adds Zertal to ANSA, referring to the peculiarities of this inexplicable site. Its walls – something unheard of at the time – were five to seven meters thick. Their external shape was 'undular', unknown in the Region. Inside there were areas rigidly divided by walls according to functional criteria, and low, blind and long corridors, perhaps used as warehouses for weapons.

"Architecture of this kind - says the archaeologist - existed only in Sardinia and Corsica. I deduce that it was 'imported' by Shardana fighters", who would have sided with the Canaanites of King Yabin against the Israelites for the final match: at stake was the control of the Jezreel valley, of vital importance for everyone. The woman-judge Deborah, a character surrounded by a mystical aura, witnessed those events. Passed down from generation to generation, the biblical Song of Deborah describes the unexpected turn taken by the battle when a torrent in flood dispersed Sisera's forces and dragged them away. And the breathless escape, pursued by Barak, to the tent of the shrewd Jael: the place of his destiny, according to the foresight of the Almighty.

The Song of Deborah is a difficult text, with references that are not always clear. According to Zertal, also in light of the information recovered in al-Ahwat, it is however legitimate to interpret it now as a confirmation of the fact that Sisera was indeed a Shardana warrior. This would allow us to better understand the history of that ancient people, as mysterious as they were evolved, who developed in Sardinia among thousands of nuraghi. But without leaving written testimony of themselves to posterity.



there's lot, just need to use google translate a lot....

Relief_Sherden_Breasted_2.jpg
 
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I find that very questionable. Not only is it a bit too convenient that a word that means 'king' is at the root of the term 'emperor' in various languages (e.g. Germanic and Slavic ones, Kaiser, Czar, etc) by means of a person with the right name being in the right position, but Romans also had a very negative view of kings, and wouldn't want to be named after them.

High Priest, Warrior king, Warrior Leader... I have no definitive answer to that, and the word Kjarr arrived up in Scandinavia and was used for Caesar also, with one another meaning altogether. It's difficult to refute the Romans didn't have a high view of the King figure, when Julio Ceasar was donated a crown that he refused constantly... but the association remains... it's archaic, and it is undeniable... the point to make anyway was of the real figure Sisara, mentioned in the bible as the warrior leader of the Sea people. Not the fruit of imagination nor invention. A well studied and still little known chapter of the Bible, and the inevitable downplay of major cultural hegemonic civilization for its name. A name that instilled fear.


In modern Italian, Cesare and Cicerone are somewhat interchangeable names, adjectives, to indicate a person representative of a place, or group of people, the knowledge bearer and dispenser. Many meanings.
 
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Hercules? No, jokes aside.... Sisara is the name of the first warrior king.... its name gave origin to 'Ceasar' as an adjective for... king...

Three thousand two hundred years after his deeds, the rough and mighty leader Sisera still causes shivers of uneasiness among Jewish children who read the Bible. If that day in Megiddo (Galilee), with his 900 chariots, he had overwhelmed Barak's army, it would have been a disaster for the Israelites. Instead - as the 'Song of Deborah' narrates - at the end of the epic day Sisera was treacherously killed, pierced in the temple with a tent peg by a woman, Jael (Yael), whom he believed to be a friend. Who Sisera (in Hebrew Sisra') was, has never been known exactly.

The aura of mystery surrounding its memory is perhaps beginning to lift now with the publication of a book by Professor Adam Zertal of the University of Haifa (‘The Secret of Sisera’), the fruit of twenty years of excavations and research in one of the most enigmatic archaeological sites in Israel: the ruins of al-Ahwat, on a hill overlooking the Via Maris, the artery that already at the time of the Pharaohs led from the Mediterranean coast towards the esplanade of Megiddo (the ‘Armageddon’ of apocalyptic prophecies) and towards Galilee. From the integrated study of archaeological finds, Egyptian hieroglyphics, Akkadian documents and the biblical text, Zertal suggests that al-Ahwat was a fortified Nuragic citadel – the most imposing in the area, at its time – built by the Shardana: a people of navigators and warriors who came from Sardinia. They had been fierce enemies of the Egyptians, who depicted them with a helmet on which two horns stood out. But once defeated, they agreed to become their vassals and to garrison strategic locations on their behalf. For example, al-Ahwat: where the commander Sisera – according to Zertal – would have established his headquarters. Its name is not Semitic and evokes Shardana roots, says the scholar. As proof, he cites Nuragic finds from Crete that mention a religious figure called Saisara. "Whoever built al-Ahwat must have been a megalomaniac", adds Zertal to ANSA, referring to the peculiarities of this inexplicable site. Its walls – something unheard of at the time – were five to seven meters thick. Their external shape was 'undular', unknown in the Region. Inside there were areas rigidly divided by walls according to functional criteria, and low, blind and long corridors, perhaps used as warehouses for weapons.

"Architecture of this kind - says the archaeologist - existed only in Sardinia and Corsica. I deduce that it was 'imported' by Shardana fighters", who would have sided with the Canaanites of King Yabin against the Israelites for the final match: at stake was the control of the Jezreel valley, of vital importance for everyone. The woman-judge Deborah, a character surrounded by a mystical aura, witnessed those events. Passed down from generation to generation, the biblical Song of Deborah describes the unexpected turn taken by the battle when a torrent in flood dispersed Sisera's forces and dragged them away. And the breathless escape, pursued by Barak, to the tent of the shrewd Jael: the place of his destiny, according to the foresight of the Almighty.

The Song of Deborah is a difficult text, with references that are not always clear. According to Zertal, also in light of the information recovered in al-Ahwat, it is however legitimate to interpret it now as a confirmation of the fact that Sisera was indeed a Shardana warrior. This would allow us to better understand the history of that ancient people, as mysterious as they were evolved, who developed in Sardinia among thousands of nuraghi. But without leaving written testimony of themselves to posterity.



there's lot, just need to use google translate a lot....

View attachment 697884
This still sounds very much like a strung-together mythologized fairy tale. The type Virgil or Geoffery of Monmouth were known to spin. And, you've still presented no real EVIDENCE, just circumstancial, weak conflations and, "because I declare it so."
 
Hercules? No, jokes aside.... Sisara is the name of the first warrior king.... its name gave origin to 'Ceasar' as an adjective for... king...
This folk etymology makes no sense. “Caesar” in Rome was not pronounced with a soft C (see-zir). It was pronounced closer to “kye-sar”. So what does “sisara” have to do with it? Also, Sisera was neither a king nor a Sherdan. Regardless, “Caesar” already has more supported etymologies. Primarily “caesius” (blue-gray) or “caesaries” (hairy-headed). There’s no support for a non-Latin origin to the word.

The rest of the claims in this post are also all outside of the historical mainstream and not supported by any actual historians of the ancient Mediterranean or Near East.
 
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Bengal should be added they have a long history of textile production and with a very unique culture

Bengal would be fantastic, one of the best civs for a potential Indain subcontinent split.

Two questions which are problematic for me: should such civ be based around
- ancient Hindu/Buddhist empires in the region (Pala etc)
- Muslim Bengal Sultanate (and later Mughal and British Bengal)
- or some collective hybrid of Bengali history, drawing from many periods

An interesting conundrum also arises regarding how Bengali civ should be in related to the modern division of that region and people between India and Bangladesh.
 
Personally I would advocate not for one particular civ but for the broader idea which I have once expressed, that if any NA tribe potentially qualifies as a civ, then any major Subsaharan ethnicity potentially qualifies as well - they tend to have long history, rich culture (agriculture, metallurgy, trade, complex political structures etc), they number in hundreds of thousands and millions etc. Subsaharan set of possible civs is not limited to a small set of "legit respectable civilizations" beyond which the continent is a "blank void" as depicted on maps, you could find a decent civ candidate from the area of every African country.

I found a lot of beauty reading about "minor" Bantu nations (numbering in millions today) who haven't founded any huge pophistory Mansa Musa empires, and it is hilarious/sad how Subsaharan Africa gets hit with far higher threshold of "what you need to historically achieve to be regarded as interwsting" compared with peoples of Americas, Australia, Oceania, even Siberia (I remember how many native peoples got their civ5 mods from those regions when compared with Bantu Africa which barely got like three - Kongo kingdom, Swahilli and Zimbabwe).

Africa has those associations that would make people laugh if say Rwanda got added as a civ, but honestly it would be totally legit addition, I had a few classes on how this kingdom had very distinctive and complex culture, society and history.
 
This still sounds very much like a strung-together mythologized fairy tale. The type Virgil or Geoffery of Monmouth were known to spin. And, you've still presented no real EVIDENCE, just circumstancial, weak conflations and, "because I declare it so."
It's a punic battle, I have no interest in winning. The video presents some references, aside, it is true anyway that Sardinia as a whole had no other meaningful kings or Leader figures that I could propose.
PLz don't try present me as a 'Trust me bro' bc I don't think I am of that kind..

Here are some reference sources I got my subject from, other than Biblical sources.

<<this excerpt mentioning of Carthaginian Hercules 'Melqart' is from this source. Author is a naval historian. >>. .

In Nora the ruins show us the Port of Nora used by the Phoenicians, the Carthaginians and the Romans. But the historian Raimondo Carta Raspi has shown how the great cataclysm of 1200 BC and the subsequent tsunami caused the sea level to rise by about 2.5 meters. Much of a port built before the arrival of the Phoenicians was submerged, probably a Shardana port, the remains of which can still be seen on the seabed today.

In Chia the few remains of the ancient city of Bithia are walls, houses and the so-called Temple of Bes to which the islands of Sardinia and the Balearics were dedicated, and statues of Bes, god of joy and fertility, were found in Bithia, Karalis, two in Maracalagonis, two in Fordongianus.

Towards Capo Teulada, the overhanging rock spur called Capo Malfatano is positioned in front of Carthage, which was only 100 nautical miles to the south. A couple of meters deep there is a colossal wall of large squared stones 90 meters long, and on the opposite bank another wall 110 meters long. Between them, a 240 meter gap allows access to the beach. It is the largest ancient port structure found so far in the Mediterranean. Ptolemy's maps indicate in this position Portus Erculi perhaps the port of Melqart, the Hercules of the Carthaginians. The harbor is surrounded by numerous Nuraghi, which suggests that it was already known in the Nuragic age.



Here (up) the Author shows us representation of a Shardan weapon: ‘amat’ a sort of ...pre-historic boomerang??? I admit is a bit murky this subject...

Here (down) the authors* present an Etymologic Hypothesis for Shar-Dan as the Princes of Dan. Dan - being yes a Mythological figure, Dan> O-DAN>ODIN... or the Sons of Odin... yes, I made it up! No I don't declare 'IT is so'.

*Authors:
Giovanni Ugas he is a professor of history and protohistory at the University of Cagliari and author of numerous excavations in Sardinia and Palestine.
Francois Chabas (1817-1882) was an anthropologist and archaeologist, translator of important papyrus.


Here there is another reference to another Sardonic figure. Serramanna. Being a possible alternative Leader.


Also, Sardinia is famous for being an ancestral matriarchal society, much like ancient Sparta, women had immense power in the society.
Numerous myths surrounds the names of important Women figures, having roles of Priesthoods, diplomacy, and overall leadership.


PS: there is not English versions of these. (to my knowledge)
PPS: I'm just trying to do some research here, if you, or others, thinks it's completely made up, well, it's ok, but please note
I have presented the sources at least... everything I have presented, has been part of this effort of translating Italian sources...
Except for the Cesare-Cicerone analogy, there is nothing purely of my basket here.



------------ MOVIN ON------

Bengal war elephants annihilates Sardinia on this aspect. Keep the thread rolling... ;)

This is a list of rulers of Bengal. For much of its history, Bengal was split up into several independent kingdoms, completely unifying only several times. In ancient times, Bengal consisted of the kingdoms of Pundra, Suhma, Vanga, Samatata and Harikela.

In the 4th century BCE, during the reign of the Nanda Empire, the powerful rulers of Gangaridai sent their forces with the war elephants which led the withdrawal of Alexander the Great from the Indian subcontinent.[1]

(Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Bengal)
 
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I am most interested in Bengal's history from the 15th century to early 18th century personally. This is when Bengal was one of the wealthiest parts of the Indian subcontinent. During Mughal rule, it was known as the "Paradise of nations" and some historians even argue it went through a phase of proto-industrialization

Alauddin Husain Shah is probably the most natural leader pick for Bengal, as he represents the height of the Bengal Sultanate. But I also really like Shuja-ud-Din Muhammad Khan even though the Nawabs of Bengal were only de facto independent from the Mughals.
 
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Can you expand on it? Some unique traits, religion, economics, warfare, leaders? I have sparse knowledge of that region...
They were not very militaristic, in their history but of textile production they invented muslin (dhaki), they are mostly muslim but in west bengal they are hindus, they also had the first non european to win a nobel prize who is tagore
 
They were not very militaristic, in their history but of textile production they invented muslin (dhaki), they are mostly muslim but in west bengal they are hindus, they also had the first non european to win a nobel prize who is tagore
I think their big problem was their historic status of being a province (albeit a highly autonomous one) to another favourite choice of new civ. That could get troublesome.
 
I think their big problem was their historic status of being a province (albeit a highly autonomous one) to another favourite choice of new civ. That could get troublesome.
They were independent from the delhi sultanate for a while
 
This folk etymology makes no sense. “Caesar” in Rome was not pronounced with a soft C (see-zir). It was pronounced closer to “kye-sar”. So what does “sisara” have to do with it? Also, Sisera was neither a king nor a Sherdan. Regardless, “Caesar” already has more supported etymologies. Primarily “caesius” (blue-gray) or “caesaries” (hairy-headed). There’s no support for a non-Latin origin to the word.

I thought we had absolutely no idea how latin was pronounced? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no expert, I've just heard that from people that seem like they should know.
 
I thought we had absolutely no idea how latin was pronounced? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm no expert, I've just heard that from people that seem like they should know.
Historians have a good idea of how ancient Latin was pronounced, based on the writings and descriptions of ancient grammarians, derivative words in other languages, and alternate spellings of the same word, among other things.

So along with the hard C, some other tidbits that might be of interest to you are the true pronunciation of “ae” (pronounced like “eye”, not “ayy”) and the ending “-i” (pronounced like “ee”, not “eye”). I guess fungi isn’t a “fun guy” after all!

And on the topic of Caesar, it’s of course not “Julius” with a “jay” sound but instead “Yoo-lee-us”.

Ecclesiastical Latin is a different beast entirely though, and pronunciations reflect modern Italian conventions. That’s where we get the pronouncing c like “ch.”

Another good word to illustrate all the differences is Cicero. Cicero is “sis-a-row” in English, “kee-kay-row” in classical Latin, and “chee-chay-row” in ecclesiastical Latin.
 
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I posted a tentative Bengali civ design incorporating elements from different eras elsewhere in the forums (which admittedly does need some serious reworking):

Spoiler Bengali civ :


Civilization: Bengali Empire (Lands of the Ganges): Farms adjacent to rivers provide additional +1 Food. Flooded tiles provide additional +1 Faith and +1 Food. +25% production to Naval Units.
Leader 1: Shashanka (Lord of Gauda): Conquering a city provides a Governor Title, and a burst of Culture once no more Governor Titles can be earnt.
Leader 2: Devapala (Pala Empire): Cities captured by Devapala provide Influence points. Gain access to the Mahavihara unique building.
Leader 3: Jalaluddin Muhammad Shah (Bangaliya Madaris): Constructing a religious building grants a free Envoy, and religious buildings provide Great Engineer points.
Leader 4: Isa Khan (Bengali Resistance): Gain double grievances against other civilizations when they capture your cities. All Baro-Bhuiyan Levy units are maintenance-free.
Leader 5: Ram Mohan Roy (Bengali Renaissance): Receive a burst of Great Person points each time you enter a Golden Era or a Dark Era, and Great Persons are 25% cheaper to purchase during these Eras.
Unique Unit: Baro-Bhuiyan Levy: Powerful but expensive melee unit. Only 12 Baro-Bhuiyan Levy units may be built and acts as a Great General to adjacent units.
Unique Building 1: Textile Manufactory: Industrial Zone building that provides additional adjacency bonus to Commercial District and provides Great Artist points. Outgoing trade routes generate +50% more Gold. Gain a copy of the unique Textile luxury resource.
Unique Building 2: Mahavihara: Can only be built when Devapala is the leader. Provides +3 Housing, +3 Faith and boost to Great Prophet and Great Scientist points in the same city. Trade routes originating from this city exert greater religious pressure.

 
My biased opinion is that the more civs from the ancient Mediterranean and ancient Middle East, the better. Also other ancient and “medieval” civs from all around the world is good. From the modern era you need the most influential civs as well, but lesser colonial nations like Canada and Australia, aren’t that important to me. It is fun that they have been included, and that the rooster is always rotating and getting new members, but modern nations, apart from the most influential ones, aren’t that important to me.
 
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