Precession of the Equinoxes and Myth

Berzerker

Deity
Joined
Dec 30, 2000
Messages
21,785
Location
the golf course
https://phys.org/news/2018-11-prehistoric-cave-art-reveals-ancient.html#nRlv

They reveal that, perhaps as far back as 40,000 years ago, humans kept track of time using knowledge of how the position of the stars slowly changes over thousands of years.

The findings suggest that ancient people understood an effect caused by the gradual shift of Earth's rotational axis. Discovery of this phenomenon, called precession of the equinoxes, was previously credited to the ancient Greeks.

I'd bet money 'we' knew about precession much deeper into the past, even ~200,000+ years ago as a tribe occupying several villages in Ethiopia SW of the Red Sea. One can see it happen in a lifetime, 1 degree every 72 years. For people especially tuned into the cosmos the change would become obvious as the constellation rising with the sun on the vernal equinox would slowly sink out of sight as a new constellation gradually replaced it.

Researchers from the Universities of Edinburgh and Kent studied details of Palaeolithic and Neolithic art featuring animal symbols at sites in Turkey, Spain, France and Germany.

They found all the sites used the same method of date-keeping based on sophisticated astronomy, even though the art was separated in time by tens of thousands of years.

The Great Year (~25,920 years) is one full cycle of the heliacal rising of stars providing the background for the sun on its annual journey. For a star rising just before the dawn on the vernal (spring) equinox it will take almost 26,000 years for it to occupy that position again.

The world's oldest sculpture, the Lion-Man of Hohlenstein-Stadel Cave, from 38,000 BC, was also found to conform to this ancient time-keeping system.

In Moses time the Ram symbolized the age of Aries, a thousand years earlier it was Taurus the Bull, and over a thousand years later Jesus would become the sacrificial lamb and fisher of men, Pisces was replacing Aries. This is of interest given the Sphinx has the head of a human on the body of a lion. Could it represent the transition from Virgo to Leo around 11,000 BC? Or maybe something that happened back then, like a flood accompanying the melt down ending the ice age.

If so, could the Lion-Man from 38,000 BC represent a past age of Leo? From 38,000 BC to 11,000 BC is ~27,000 years. Its close enough to consider...

On a sidenote:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-018-0722-0

Myths about unicorns may have derived from giant Siberian rhinos that went extinct about 40 kya - recent enough to become part of our mythology. Greek myths about strange monsters may have a basis in reality, the fossils of dinosaurs could be mistaken for mythological animals like the Griffin. Lions with beaks and 3 toes sounds like an herbivore from the ceratops family.
 
As always, Berserker, interesting, but likely wrong. I searched for the original paper your is based on in the Athens Journal of History and thru google. I have not found it yet. But I did find a rebuttal to his paper written by archaeologists who work at the Göbekli Tepe site. It is not too long and only addresses particular aspects of the Sweatman paper. Their conclusion is that Sweatman did his work poorly: he left out what did not fit, he moved things around in time, ignored evidence that he didn't want to include, etc. In other words, not science.

ABSTRACT In a paper recently published in this journal, Martin B. Sweatman and Dimitrios Tsikritsis from the University of Edinburgh (School of Engineering) have suggested an interpretation for the early Neolithic monumental enclosures at Göbekli Tepe as space observatories and the site's complex iconography the commemoration of a catastrophic astronomical event ('Younger Dryas Comet Impact'). As the archaeologists excavating this site, we would like to comment on a few points that we feel require consideration in this discussion.

http://maajournal.com/Issues/2017/Vol17-2/Matters arising 17(2).pdf

Berzerker, you should read the link.

EDIT: I did find the original Sweatman paper: https://cosmictusk.com/catastrophism/
EDIT 2: Oops, the link above is not the one referred to by Berzerker.

EDIT 3: This is it: https://cosmictusk.com/datestamp-worlds-oldest-monument-memorializes-younger-dryas-comet-impact/ Scroll down.

EDIT 4: OK I read the link right above. @Berzerker did you read it? It is truly terrible and basically says that we know what our conclusions need to be so we will make up what we need to "prove" that conclusion. It is an excellent example of how bad science works and goes mainstream.
 
Last edited:
The main problem I can see with this is that different people make different constellations out of different stars.
 
I'm reading your link, but it deals with Gobekli Tepe. Now if the authors butchered that it doesn't bode well for their other research, but the OP is more about the older European cave paintings etc. They're not the first to see them as cosmological, but its another step to conclude its evidence of precession.

Oh yeah, your link (the 1st in your post) claims Gobekli's occupation began 9600 BC. Thats when Plato (Solon) says Atlantis was destroyed.
 
wow, I really should do more research on Gobekli. I'm reading your link and it shows a picture of pillar 43. At the top of the pillar are 3 'handbags' some researchers believe may be their houses/buildings.

Now these hand bags dont have hands holding them, but I have seen these peculiar things before on Mesopotamian cylinder seals and a Mesoamerican carvings.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/813322013927286428
https://www.ancient-code.com/the-my...s-depicted-in-sumer-america-and-gobekli-tepe/

I read thru the link and the response from the authors, they made a better case than the critic imo. Course I'm in the camp that sees the sky as a major focus of myth thru time.
 
Last edited:
Afaik astronomy begins in ancient greece as an 'open study', ie as an order which can be studied by students, but did exist -in whatever different form- in other cultures, which had all such knowledge only shared by closed casts (priests in egypt, chaldeans in mesopotamia, magoi in persia, even druids in panbarbaria :D )

That said, use of trigonometry in astronomy (also for study of the sundial) is attributed to the illustrious anaximander of miletos, the student of thales and concurrent of pythagoras. That is the early 6th century bc :)
 
Afaik astronomy begins in ancient greece as an 'open study', ie as an order which can be studied by students, but did exist -in whatever different form- in other cultures, which had all such knowledge only shared by closed casts (priests in egypt, chaldeans in mesopotamia, magoi in persia, even druids in panbarbaria :D )

That said, use of trigonometry in astronomy (also for study of the sundial) is attributed to the illustrious anaximander of miletos, the student of thales and concurrent of pythagoras. That is the early 6th century bc :)

yes
Greek emphasis on logic freed knowledge sharing from the claws of the knowledge-religion-state power combi, of the preceding God-King like societies .
A kind of proto-secularising driven by logic on the road to Science as independent body.
 
So the point where human technology starts destroying the planet is the point humans are thrown back into the stone age to start again? Since the God-king really does not want the planet destroyed by the knowledge hungry science types, whose thirst after knowledge ends up on the path to planetary destruction, there is a small scale catastrophe to reset human knowledge and endeavor.
 
So the point where human technology starts destroying the planet is the point humans are thrown back into the stone age to start again? Since the God-king really does not want the planet destroyed by the knowledge hungry science types, whose thirst after knowledge ends up on the path to planetary destruction, there is a small scale catastrophe to reset human knowledge and endeavor.


What planet is being destroyed again? I missed something in this discussion I think.
 
So the point where human technology starts destroying the planet is the point humans are thrown back into the stone age to start again? Since the God-king really does not want the planet destroyed by the knowledge hungry science types, whose thirst after knowledge ends up on the path to planetary destruction, there is a small scale catastrophe to reset human knowledge and endeavor.

We live in the motte in the sky (or what that scifi novel was called) ? :)
 
Back
Top Bottom