Pressure level - religion

[wobuffet]

Anyone had any luck figuring this out?

 

[Barghaest]

So the amount of followers don't help with the pressure at all? One can better have one follower in a lot of cities than a lot of followers in a few cities? To spread the religion best?

To exert pressure the religion needs to be dominant one in the city; so, that means followers do matter up to the amount that would be over 50% population. Having 1 follower in a pop 6 city is meaningless, it won't exert pressure for that religion.

As for being more than +6 per city, when I picked Religious Texts I noticed a jump in pressure on my (and neighboring) cities, so it's modifier it applied to that value on the display.. +6 will become +8 per city then +10 per city with Printing Press.

 

[RealHuhn]

I think it's pretty simple.

1) On standart speed, a city which follows a religion (including the holy city) provides +6 pressure to every city within a radius of 10 tiles. And it adds up.

2) For example, a city which is surrounded by 3 religious cities (which are all 10 tiles away max) receives +18 pressure from that religion (3*6).

3) Your religion has to be dominant in a city in order to provide the +6 pressure, so 4 followers in a city with 10 population doesn't do anything in terms of pressuring other cities.

4) The enhancer beliefs can modify these values. One adds +33/+66% to the +6 (= +8/+10), the other one increases the range from +10 to +15 (?not sure how much?).

I'm pretty sure that's it. I don't think trade routes and the number of followers have any effect on this. Only thing that matters is the amount of cities that follow your religion within a certain radius of tiles.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Andulias]

You know, according to this video series there was a similar system in CIV with followers and such, but it was scraped because it felt needlessly complicated. While I like how religion spreads now, exactly how it works is certainly kind of dubious. Firaxis could have done a better job explaining it.

 

[Ulthwithian]

AFAIK, the religion system works exactly as RealHuhn says.

The only difference is that I believe there is a lag between when a religion becomes dominant in a city, and that city giving pressure.

Also, while pressure exists, I do not think it shows up on the screen until at least one follower of that religion is in a city.

 

[OrcusKing]

But how does a Missionary and Prophet actually spread your religion? Do they have to just walk around or is there an action they can perform?

 

[Ulthwithian]

Orcus: A unit that can spread religion (and how awesome would it be to have a UU that could spread religion?) must be adjacent to a city to spread to that city. (These units have methods of going into other people's territory.)

Once there, you hit the button, and AFAIK they exert 1000 Pressure on the City. As noted elsewhere, Missionaries convert unconverted or Pantheon followers only. Inquisitors exert -1000 Pressure (AFAIK) on enemy religions, and Prophets do both.

 

[OrcusKing]

Thanks.

 

[Harv72b]

To exert pressure the religion needs to be dominant one in the city; so, that means followers do matter up to the amount that would be over 50% population. Having 1 follower in a pop 6 city is meaningless, it won't exert pressure for that religion.

I didn't believe you, so I went back into a save game to prove you wrong.

You're right.

So I take back what I said last night--a religion does have to be the dominant one before it exerts any pressure (which doesn't make sense from a RL perspective, but does from a gaming one).

 

[OrcusKing]

What does the Pressure number mean?

 

[Khadroth]

I can't tell you the exact math because I don't know but I can confirm what Barghaest says as it was corroborated in one of Madjinn's LPs with Carthage where he stated that the pressure dealt with number of cities in the region but only the dominant religion of that city would exert pressure outwards to the other cities in the region.

 

[Harv72b]

The exact formula for everything is obviously somewhere in the code for the game, so someone that's actually halfway decent at reading such things just needs to poke around.

/Not halfway decent at reading such things.

 

[Barghaest]

What does the Pressure number mean?

It's how much force is being exerted upon that city by other cities (or from within if it's a Holy City, they get a base 10 or so boost). Not positive on the threshold is to convert one pop, but people have speculated on it earlier in the thread. The 100 seems accurate and I believe it's related to RELIGION_ATHEISM_PRESSURE_PER_POP in GlobalDefines.xml (default value 100).

Think of it in terms of border growth, after you accumulate so much pressure, one more citizen converts; however, unlike culture pressure is exerted by adjacent religious cities instead of anything you build in that city. (Unfortunately I haven't seen a Current Pressure Level indicator yet, just Pressure Per Turn).

 

[Big J Money]

Don't forget that the holy city has an innate pressure in addition to the algorithm stated above by RealHuhn. If I recall, I believe it's a flat +20 (on Standard) on top of everything else. This number also seems to be modified by any abilities that increase pressure AFAICT.

Also, someone called what missionaries do "pressure". I don't think that's right, because by default a missionary has 1000 points, which would mean that 1 spread use would give +10 followers to that religion -- which never happens. So I think this number is somehow used very differently, but I'm honestly not sure how. I notice missionaries tend to convert fewer followers away from a foreign faith than they are able to turn neutral followers to faith the first time.

Also, if someone can figure out how pressure and conversion works when you have pressure from multiple religions simultaneously, that would be cool, too. For now I just assume whichever one is in the lead subtracts the second highest from his total, and the difference is the only thing that matters.

 

[MobileOak]

Do citizens change religion once they've converted to one or another?

For instance, if I have a border city, with 5 followers of Christianity, and 4 followers of Islam, and 9 population, is there any way this city will flip to Islam if there are no inquisitors or great prophets used?

I was playing a Duel map against Gandhi, and he only had one city. I sent in a Great Prophet and completely flipped all 12 citizens to my religion, and I thought this would kill his religion, since the Holy City converted to my religion, but a few turns later he not only had flipped all the way back, but had sent a missionary my way. How did he do that?

 

[Miravlix]

Do citizens change religion once they've converted to one or another?

For instance, if I have a border city, with 5 followers of Christianity, and 4 followers of Islam, and 9 population, is there any way this city will flip to Islam if there are no inquisitors or great prophets used?

I was playing a Duel map against Gandhi, and he only had one city. I sent in a Great Prophet and completely flipped all 12 citizens to my religion, and I thought this would kill his religion, since the Holy City converted to my religion, but a few turns later he not only had flipped all the way back, but had sent a missionary my way. How did he do that?

Holy Cities has to be conquered to be stopped from going back to their own religion.

 

[Koolaidking]

I want to call attention to a distinction with missionary converting nonreligious population and missionaries converting population of an alternative religion. The 1000 the flies across the screen when you spread your religion to a neutral city produces vastly different conversion results than that of a missionary that spread his religion to that of a heathen one. This is fully noticeable when sending a missionary to an opposite's holy city. So when in a real game situation, how can we predict how spreading religion via missionaries will effect the conversion rate of both neutral and religious population?