conehead234
Braves on the Warpath
O ok, i'll be Egypt
Preview and Development thread; XNESII- the middle ages- with a twist ;)
- Thread starter Xen
- Start date
Bulgars; moderatelly strong agiasnt every one except who they start out at was with, the Byzantine empire, who during this period totally ahnialted the Bulgar nation (the Byzantines will get a special bonus agiasnt the Bulgars)
Northern Spainards; enough to indipendentlly, defend thier territoies unless cordova employs good tactics, though anrt really strong to conqoure anythign with out support of one of the parger nations (in real life, crusaders from england and france and germany on thier way by boat to the middle east woudl often help out the spainards, and the naitons of portugal was basically won in this fashio; however, witht he predominat religion in the west not having anythign to do withthe middle east in terms of holyness, that isnt likelly to happen)
Fatamid- caliphate; the stronges tof three choices overall, wil take some building up to really have a chance to push agiasnt the abbasid caliphate, and a war agiasnt Rome at that point is rather lost; however, expanding west is out of the question for them at all...
Northern Spainards; enough to indipendentlly, defend thier territoies unless cordova employs good tactics, though anrt really strong to conqoure anythign with out support of one of the parger nations (in real life, crusaders from england and france and germany on thier way by boat to the middle east woudl often help out the spainards, and the naitons of portugal was basically won in this fashio; however, witht he predominat religion in the west not having anythign to do withthe middle east in terms of holyness, that isnt likelly to happen)
Fatamid- caliphate; the stronges tof three choices overall, wil take some building up to really have a chance to push agiasnt the abbasid caliphate, and a war agiasnt Rome at that point is rather lost; however, expanding west is out of the question for them at all...
thoughts on more defined Rules
Economy
works like most other recent NES's, where the fraction represents how much treasury you currentlly have, and how much you earning per turn.
I havent determined exactley what will lead to an economy gorwing- more then likelly, it will be a combination of how mucgh territory you have, how many cities you have, what, if any roads you have, your relitive position int he world, and where you lay alogn the trade routs, and just how area the nation is was doing in real life- take Rome and the Caliphate of Cordoba (the green nation in spain)
these nation both operate along the prime routes for trade- if fact, they both own choke points in the med sea, where they can essentially charge whatever they want for shipt to pass through, in Romes case, with its prime real esate in the center med, it can virtually control all traffic and trade going from spain and france by sea over to the eastern med... making it get a larger bonusin terms fo how much econ the have- on top of that, in real life, the cities of Genoa and Venice had entered in economci rivally- well, nothign stopping cities of the sdame nation entering in that type of rivally- but instead of adding that as a bonus to the states economy, I have decided to represent this by giving both of them thier own econ per turn stat- where the economy in question can only be used for the Themes they are in.... this helps to balence out the larg eamount fo econ that a nation liek rome would be getting from them- as the game goes on, and the situation changes, economic developments will change as well- creating a versitile economic world for the NES
Military
it has becoem appernt to me, while pondering the question of economy, that, as far as NES's go, the nations in thsi one will be filthy rich- as such, I've decided to balence this out by making troops more expenisve, and indivisible into smaller units then what is shown (the exception might be if a nation is on the verge of collapse)
100 (basic eg; disorginized medieval) Infantry unit- 3 economy
50 cavalry unit- 3 economy
100 Archer unit- 2 economy
15 ships- 5 economy
UU's, are judged on a case by case basis, as well are any technological developments that may lead to a new type of troop (or rediscovery of one)
troops advanatges are based on what situation, and what terrain they are used for; I'll try to find a topographic map of the earth to be the "official" map for what kind ofterrian is where
essentially, the troops are the standard set up I have for NES's- infantry is the predominant type of troops, its the most useful int he most situations, archers are good for defence, horsemen are useful for offense.
Armies
ammies are a large, permanent grouping of troops that can give a heavy advantage in a nations military wants, due to the higher orginization, and resources that go along with such a project- however, the amry dose have limitations
-it can only be formed out of units of the "Royal" army, and no troops from feifs, or themes or marches can be counted in it
-an army can never be disbanded once made
-armies can operate in only one area at a time, and travel the land one area(feif, theme, or march) per turn
-armies cost 5 econ to make in the firs tplace
-the location of an army will be shown on the main NES map
-armies do give a very heavy advantage in favour of whoever has one in the battle
-armies do not have a maximum as to how many troops can be in them; once creted, you can continue mannign them with troops, 1 econ for every three units of troops added
another touch on feifs,themes,marches, and vassal states
vassal states are somthign i forgot to describe at first- on the map, you will notice severla areas, such as Armenia in the middle east, and Bohemia near germany are thier own coloured, but have an sideborder coloured to the nation next to them- this symbolizes that these nations are vassal states- they are indipendent nations, but effecitvilly under your domion, you can spend thie rmoney, and use thier troops, though there is always a chance they will rebel if they get to unpleased with your rule, btu also the chance, if very pleased, they will enter into you rnaiton fully, as a new feifdom, or group of feifs...
nations may voluntarilly become vassals if they fell they are threatend, and caanot handle the enemy alone, the spanish kingdoms for instance are very threatend, an dits likelly they will be lookign for an overloard ot help protect them
also, sometimes, you can buy the lord of nation into vasadom,. the price just has to be right, and usually, that price is very steep- though the only way they will think about it if your two nations have somthign in common, like ethnicity, culture, or religion, having all three makes it very easy
-this for instance makes burgundy a big target for such things- sharing ethnicty with the by Romano-germans of france, the Germans of gerrmnay, and the by now pure Roman people of Rome (hence why the title of "empire" was dropped in favor of kingdom; Romer no longer rules anythign that can be considered, or even resemble a forigen people)as well as sharing cultural traits with all them in its Romano-german blend, and even religion, for in the wes,t it was the flower of Mithraism that sprouted, and europe is a checker boar dof nordic faiths, Roman mithraism, and in the east, some form of christianity that in real life were abolished by the various churches...
Feif diplomacy- feifs will not generally initiate in diplomacy, however, you as a player can, you can see just what it will take to gain the feif over from your neighbor into your possesion, and the feifs will reply honestlly in that regard.
Economy
works like most other recent NES's, where the fraction represents how much treasury you currentlly have, and how much you earning per turn.
I havent determined exactley what will lead to an economy gorwing- more then likelly, it will be a combination of how mucgh territory you have, how many cities you have, what, if any roads you have, your relitive position int he world, and where you lay alogn the trade routs, and just how area the nation is was doing in real life- take Rome and the Caliphate of Cordoba (the green nation in spain)
these nation both operate along the prime routes for trade- if fact, they both own choke points in the med sea, where they can essentially charge whatever they want for shipt to pass through, in Romes case, with its prime real esate in the center med, it can virtually control all traffic and trade going from spain and france by sea over to the eastern med... making it get a larger bonusin terms fo how much econ the have- on top of that, in real life, the cities of Genoa and Venice had entered in economci rivally- well, nothign stopping cities of the sdame nation entering in that type of rivally- but instead of adding that as a bonus to the states economy, I have decided to represent this by giving both of them thier own econ per turn stat- where the economy in question can only be used for the Themes they are in.... this helps to balence out the larg eamount fo econ that a nation liek rome would be getting from them- as the game goes on, and the situation changes, economic developments will change as well- creating a versitile economic world for the NES
Military
it has becoem appernt to me, while pondering the question of economy, that, as far as NES's go, the nations in thsi one will be filthy rich- as such, I've decided to balence this out by making troops more expenisve, and indivisible into smaller units then what is shown (the exception might be if a nation is on the verge of collapse)
100 (basic eg; disorginized medieval) Infantry unit- 3 economy
50 cavalry unit- 3 economy
100 Archer unit- 2 economy
15 ships- 5 economy
UU's, are judged on a case by case basis, as well are any technological developments that may lead to a new type of troop (or rediscovery of one)
troops advanatges are based on what situation, and what terrain they are used for; I'll try to find a topographic map of the earth to be the "official" map for what kind ofterrian is where
essentially, the troops are the standard set up I have for NES's- infantry is the predominant type of troops, its the most useful int he most situations, archers are good for defence, horsemen are useful for offense.
Armies
ammies are a large, permanent grouping of troops that can give a heavy advantage in a nations military wants, due to the higher orginization, and resources that go along with such a project- however, the amry dose have limitations
-it can only be formed out of units of the "Royal" army, and no troops from feifs, or themes or marches can be counted in it
-an army can never be disbanded once made
-armies can operate in only one area at a time, and travel the land one area(feif, theme, or march) per turn
-armies cost 5 econ to make in the firs tplace
-the location of an army will be shown on the main NES map
-armies do give a very heavy advantage in favour of whoever has one in the battle
-armies do not have a maximum as to how many troops can be in them; once creted, you can continue mannign them with troops, 1 econ for every three units of troops added
another touch on feifs,themes,marches, and vassal states
vassal states are somthign i forgot to describe at first- on the map, you will notice severla areas, such as Armenia in the middle east, and Bohemia near germany are thier own coloured, but have an sideborder coloured to the nation next to them- this symbolizes that these nations are vassal states- they are indipendent nations, but effecitvilly under your domion, you can spend thie rmoney, and use thier troops, though there is always a chance they will rebel if they get to unpleased with your rule, btu also the chance, if very pleased, they will enter into you rnaiton fully, as a new feifdom, or group of feifs...
nations may voluntarilly become vassals if they fell they are threatend, and caanot handle the enemy alone, the spanish kingdoms for instance are very threatend, an dits likelly they will be lookign for an overloard ot help protect them
also, sometimes, you can buy the lord of nation into vasadom,. the price just has to be right, and usually, that price is very steep- though the only way they will think about it if your two nations have somthign in common, like ethnicity, culture, or religion, having all three makes it very easy
-this for instance makes burgundy a big target for such things- sharing ethnicty with the by Romano-germans of france, the Germans of gerrmnay, and the by now pure Roman people of Rome (hence why the title of "empire" was dropped in favor of kingdom; Romer no longer rules anythign that can be considered, or even resemble a forigen people)as well as sharing cultural traits with all them in its Romano-german blend, and even religion, for in the wes,t it was the flower of Mithraism that sprouted, and europe is a checker boar dof nordic faiths, Roman mithraism, and in the east, some form of christianity that in real life were abolished by the various churches...
Feif diplomacy- feifs will not generally initiate in diplomacy, however, you as a player can, you can see just what it will take to gain the feif over from your neighbor into your possesion, and the feifs will reply honestlly in that regard.
JosefStalinator
Я буду снова здесь
looks good xen, though the army thing is kinda weird
Storm Rider
Essence of Awesome
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2004
- Messages
- 288
How good are England and Poland?
JosefStalinator
Я буду снова здесь
btw xen would persias land be uncovered if persia became PC?
JosefStalinator said:
A)its not Persia, its the Buwayhid Emirate(s)
B)that said, if the Buwayhid Emirate become PC,thier area of the map will becoem exposed,m at least to that player- if thewy choose to start shareing thier map, then it will become availible for everybody else
Storm Rider said:
England
England is a moderatelly powerful nations, but is going to start already in war with several viking powers; the "true norse" of the baltic sea (you know, denmark, sweden, noeway and the like) are more powerful, but are involved in wars on most front, nto to mention to fun of raiding, and trading those spoils and slaves to the wealthy Mediterranean powers for raw gold and silver coins- the Normans while not the most powerful are probabley the biggest threat to ENgland- on the map they are shown as being part of france, in the game they will be tied to france, but be an indipendent kingdom (read the section on vassal states basically- what the Normans conqoure will be Norman held, and not a subject to france though)
Poland-
a regional power, able to stand on its own for the most part agiasnt any one aggressor, but not several, and this includes the baltic barabrian tribes- Poleand should probabley look to cement alliances at first, until it can build up
as a note, neither england or poleand are economically strong, being rather backwoods barbarians when it comes to the trade routes; the main trader sof the North are the Vikings, while th emed states dominate southern, and even central european trade
Storm Rider
Essence of Awesome
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2004
- Messages
- 288
I suppose I'll take Poland for now, but pawpaw's suggestion for a map key would help a lot.
a theme on a mapis marked the same way as a feif is; with the dark grey seperation lines, the main difference is of course, is that Themes are militarilly stronger, and are almost always completelly loyal, but they can only defend themselvesor thier direct neigbors with thier troops, and can only attack a nation that directlly borders them.
Feifs on the other hand, ar enot always loyal, and can be lured away from thier nation of birth far more easilly then a theme/marche, but on the other hand, thier troops can be called upon to attack anyone, anywhere...
the main difference is to show the spereation between the more orginized states of the period agiasnt the more disorginized feudal states; when the Normans conqoured england, they set up a marche or too,mainlyl for defense agiasnt the welsh IIRC, and made most of the land direc tproperty of the king- this led to England being one fo the few centrlized nations int he middle ages- on the other side of Europe, the Byzantine empire set up a huge system fo provinces under the name of themes to act as a firs tlien fo defense to give time for the imperial army to get to the theme and be the real defender of the empire (eventually, this system would fail, for varios reasons)
taken together, themes and marches have the same purpose; being a semi indipendent feudal unit,t hat owes direct alleigence to the states leader, instead of a reguler feudal lord, the cos tof hwice it sets it up being a mostlyl defensive thing, with little offensive capibilties, and even rather few capabities to defend the rest of the kingdom/empire, makign a nation rely not on a feudal army, but on a strong, central, national army under direct control fo the king, not any sort of vassal or fill in lord.
Feifs on the other hand, ar enot always loyal, and can be lured away from thier nation of birth far more easilly then a theme/marche, but on the other hand, thier troops can be called upon to attack anyone, anywhere...
the main difference is to show the spereation between the more orginized states of the period agiasnt the more disorginized feudal states; when the Normans conqoured england, they set up a marche or too,mainlyl for defense agiasnt the welsh IIRC, and made most of the land direc tproperty of the king- this led to England being one fo the few centrlized nations int he middle ages- on the other side of Europe, the Byzantine empire set up a huge system fo provinces under the name of themes to act as a firs tlien fo defense to give time for the imperial army to get to the theme and be the real defender of the empire (eventually, this system would fail, for varios reasons)
taken together, themes and marches have the same purpose; being a semi indipendent feudal unit,t hat owes direct alleigence to the states leader, instead of a reguler feudal lord, the cos tof hwice it sets it up being a mostlyl defensive thing, with little offensive capibilties, and even rather few capabities to defend the rest of the kingdom/empire, makign a nation rely not on a feudal army, but on a strong, central, national army under direct control fo the king, not any sort of vassal or fill in lord.
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