Priest Resources (AV especially) -- Need Ideas

[Calbrenar]

Isn't Fishing required for OO though?

Personally I don't like having Incense being what enables everything because it is fairly common. Diplomacy (to include war) or good scouting/luck & city placement ought to be involved for all of the religions IMO, then you might be forced to take what religion you can make priests for instead of always having completely free choice among them all

We need an official title to demonstrate his job of replying to my statements that make me look like an idiot but doing it in a nice way

 

[scaramouche]

What is the core justification for incense being the priest enabler? Is it that it has religious significance? Or are they huffing vapors to get high and closer to their god or something? If it's the former, then any number of other resources could be used for priests of various religions to represent their iconography and trappings of ceremony.

Ivory, for instance, seems an interesting pick. It has a bone element, ivory is often carved into ceremonial shapes and devices, etc. etc. Also, it's a scarcer resource than some and so still fits the 'not universally prevalent' model.

 

[Calbrenar]

I like the idea of Ivory.

One thing to keep in mind is what directions will you have to take to enable your priests.

For example say you want Ivory for AV for the Bone aspect that you brought up. Well that requires getting Hunting which I believe is one of the preqs for FoL.

Fish would obviously go well with OO.

 

[scaramouche]

I like the idea of Ivory.

One thing to keep in mind is what directions will you have to take to enable your priests.

For example say you want Ivory for AV for the Bone aspect that you brought up. Well that requires getting Hunting which I believe is one of the preqs for FoL.

Fish would obviously go well with OO.

Are whales too rare for OO priests? Whalebone seems like a cool liturgical element.

 

[scaramouche]

Just off the top of my head, other resources that seem to have priestly potential:
Dye: Special inks for canon documents
Silk: Ceremonial vestments
Whale: Whalebone, scrimshaw, spermis, verdigris - wacky stuff that all could have other meaning.
Ivory: Again, ceremonial implements, bone-aspected, etc.
Marble: Grand temples, sacrificial altars

 

[Blackmantle]

Marble sounds good for order (have to agree for Metal as fitting for Order since its rather the most militaristic of the religions or perhaps something for their vestments like cotton / silk / dye) or especially empyrean (theirs sound the most likely to be shining temples of white marble). For dark sacrificial altars only dark / black Marble (if such a thing exists) / Sheut Stones whould seem apropriate if you whould want to go that route.

Whale sounds interesting for OO since its quite rare and hard to get, fits the domain and whould imo rather fit the theme of that religion than smaller sea denizens. (After all Whales have been depicted as sea monsters in the middle ages. Could be that FFH whales are just that. Monstrous Whales. And Sea Monsters for sure fit OO best. Perhaps someone from the team can comment)

 

[Tarquelne]

When I say self-defeating to me priests mages melee and recon line are the 4 main options for soldiers. Everyone has those 4 options and can choose which way to go based on what they have available. AV currently has either 2 or 4 options depending on whether or not they can obtain reagants.

Even though you're still missing out on lots o' evil-priest fun by the time you can make archmages I'd hope you can get some reagents.
Yes, that does presuppose that it's good to have to fight (or trade) for resources.

Additionally needing mana to found priests means that you're already almost all the way to getting mages so its really not an alternate research path.

Unless you count from KotE, which you need anyway. Then it's only about 1/4 of the way to mages.

Here I'm assuming it's good to occasionally make people work a little extra to get what they want. I think Veil priests are possibly the most useful and don't see working harder to get them as a problem at all. If you're using a map script that coughs up very few reagents (and sometimes none at all) then of course things should be adjusted, and possibly quite a bit. But, IMO, sometimes needing Necromancy is not very burdensome.

 

[jwin]

I still don't think they should have a build requirment, none of the other lines do through their mid range units. (except mounted, but horses are common)
-Swordsman don't require metal
-longbows don't require anything
-mages don't require anything, even mana because you start with at least 2 from palace.

With priests needing a resource, if you go the religious path you are stuck with only one mid level unit type (paramander, stygian guard, etc) if you don't have the resource.

 

[dot]

I think that all the priests should be buildable without resources, and then get a bonus from the proper resource. Also make high priests require the resource to be promoted. This would put them similar to the melee units, which are buildable without metals but get a bonus from them.

I second this idea! It seems way more reasonable to me than making or-requirements, i.e. adding other resources. Here are two suggestions on what bonus you could get if you have access to the required resource:

• What could go well with incense is to allow the priests to cast a spell that grants the defensive promotion - but make it only available in cities or maybe forts. That way they can enhance defense which I think fits with the theme that people who have 'spiritual support' are more likely to hold out and defend. Whether this would be overpowered or not is up to you to discuss!
• Another option would be to lower the percentage of the chance to get 1 XP every turn and rise it if the required resource is available. Maybe through a promotion that is similar to the one granted by the arcane trait.

Whether or not these things are codeable I don't know.

[...]
Personally I don't like having Incense being what enables everything because it is fairly common. Diplomacy (to include war) or good scouting/luck & city placement ought to be involved for all of the religions IMO, then you might be forced to take what religion you can make priests for instead of always having completely free choice among them all

I further agree that the resource should still be required for the high priests. A bit of fighting over resources (or clever diplomatics) are always welcome. That's why I hate to check balanced and or blessings.

I believe the way it is set up now, all priests have 2 spells. You could make them have only 1 without the resource. Or, take away their free xp gain unless they have the resource. Or, some of the bonus promotions like command and inquisition. I don't know if these suggestions are codable.

I don't like the stripping sth away part, though.

Just my two , anyway.

 

[Rudenut]

Hi, I'm new to these forums but have been lurking for a bit. I find that reagents are fairly common and rarely have an empire without them...however, I play Khazad alot...they are my favorite civ. I rarely find gems for their priests and the gems I do find are buried in landtypes that are very antithematic for a dwarven society. (jungle)...I think marble or gold or some such would be better for RoK...as for AV....ivory fits I suppose.

As an amendment..I think incense should be required for all civs with the alternate resource, (marble, ivory and so on) as exactly that...alternative.