Prince walk through (I hope)

[MrG]

Hello,

I'm reasonably adept at beating this game on Prince, so I thought I'd do a walk through with the aim of helping other players who may be struggling, potentially get a insight into how to beat the game.

I'm not promising this will be perfect, there may well be all manner of cock ups on the way, but it should be entertaining to say the least.

I'll aim to play every night, starting tomorrow - I'll post the initial save and my strategy in a bit - and I'll carry on until people lose interest/I win/ I get my arse handed to me on a plate.

As always feedback would be very welcome, expecially from the better players, you know who you are.

My basic strategy is to beeline to liberalism, with nationalism as the free tech, then blast to rifling before anyone else gets there.

As I said before I'm sure this approach has been adopted before, but hopefully this will be at least slightly useful to some of you.

Settings

Pangea
Temperate
High Sea Levels
Random Coastline
Random Civilization - Maya (Expansive, Financial)

As you can see from the first screen shot, there are no resources in the bfc to start with but plenty of floodpains and stone and sheep to the north west and north east respectively.

Now this may sound strange, but I'm going to move my settler one square south of my starting location. There may be extra food resources down there and additionally I will be able to maximise my food benefits from the flood plains, and also leave me enough grassland hills for some reasonable production.


Moving my settler south reveals....rice. Great news. Screenshot three, shows my first city.

Right the fundamentals.

My research path will be Agriculture (for the rice), hunting, Archery, bronze working, the wheel, pottery. writing, aestheics, literature.

Meanwhile I will be building a worker, then archers until I reach my happiness cap, then worker, settler, 2x workers, settler, 2x worker, settler, 2x worker.

I will attempt to block off as much land as possible with my settlers. One will be a production centre, one will be a commerce centre and the other will be a hybrid. The capital will ultimately have the library, great library and national epic in it and will be a great person farm.

Each new city will have a monument and a barracks built in them to keep up my power rating and discourage other civs from attacking me.

The key to the new cities is that they need to be near food resources, because I'll be using whipping (Slavery) to get the early buildings up quickly.

I will also be aiming to block off enough territory for 8-10 cities during my initial expansion phase.

 

[Quotey]

My research path will be Agriculture (for the rice), hunting, Archery, bronze working, the wheel, pottery. writing, aestheics, literature.

Meanwhile I will be building a worker, then archers until I reach my happiness cap, then worker, settler, 2x workers, settler, 2x worker, settler, 2x worker.

I will attempt to block off as much land as possible with my settlers. One will be a production centre, one will be a commerce centre and the other will be a hybrid. The capital will ultimately have the library, great library and national epic in it and will be a great person farm.

Each new city will have a monument and a barracks built in them to keep up my power rating and discourage other civs from attacking me.

You're planning out everything before even starting- So why even play the game?

And Archery? Yeesh.

 

[MrG]

I'm planning it in advance because, its prince level and if you don't plan what you're doing you stumble through the first dozen turns and it tends to go wrong.

Plus in my experience you need to specialise your cities if you want to win at noble or above.

What I should have added was, I plan, subject to conditions, pitch for a conquest or domination win. I'm not looking to found religions, but I will be latching onto the biggest block.

I've now whizzed through 30 turns, Screenshot shows the know world, the signs show where I plan to put cities to block off as much terrain as possible.

Archery.. the reason for archery is, I can't guarantee copper in my bfc, so i can defend myself far more effectively with early archers. If I was playing warlord or chieftain level, I'd go for bronze working, but I'm not I'm playing prince, and I don't want to get dog piled by hundreds of swordsmen and axes, with only warriors to defend myself.

In a brighter note, the opponents are fairly straightforward, with no nutcases so diplomacy should be fairly straightforward.

Saves and screenshot attached.

 

[MyOlde]

This is terrific, Mr G. Keep on going. I'm way back there still struggling to beat Noble consistently.

 

[Quotey]

You planned out a tech path without masonry and AH before lit (second city might grab sheep and stone). It also does not include Polytheism which is required for Literature.

You planned out a 100 turn long build list for the capital. Your production city is low on food and the city here somehwere locations are crap and will probably block nothing.

I play Emp/Immortal going either AH or BW before Archery. Sisuitil does it.

e: LDiCesare made another good point with the Holkan thing...

It looks like you've taken a bunch of high level strategies (blocking land, going for the GL, researching archery for fear of barbs, thinking, etc) and are applying them wrongly to the wrong level.

But hey, it's Prince.

 

[LDiCesare]

Archery is totally useless for mayas. You don't need bronze for Holkans.
So I dare say picking archery is a waste of time. Holkans are way better, and Bronze Working earlier lets you get slavery earlier.
Also you're not plannoing to build a granary in your capital before very late but plan to use slavery, which sounds strange.

As you said, the first move south is weird. You lose both one turn and a forest. If you compare the land you did grab with what you lost, you only got the opportunity to work wheat for a fw turns, but you had flood plains anyway, so unfarmed wheat is not a big gain in terms of growth, you lost one turn and one forest forever (either for shields + health or chopping). Overall, you didn't gain much.

You plan a beeline for liberalism, but do you plan a beeline to the Oracle which has the same effect, except earlier?

 

[Joshua368]

Also while its great to plan ahead and have a basic understanding on what you want to do and where to go, playing the map is the main way you'll succeed. You can't just follow a strict set of rules and expect the dominate.

What you need is to know how to respond to whatever the map flings your way. For example, if someone appears really close to you and you find bronze it may be better to go for an early rush rather than a settler spam.

Also archery is pretty much a total waste of time unless you lack bronze or horses.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

I also play high lvls and almost always go for Archery first....possible reasons in my case are huge maps / marathon speed. If you go AH don't see Horses, then BW and don't see Copper, you only then have to backtrack to Hunting/Archery...

You absolutely CAN'T then (after failed AH/BW) go straight after IW, the barbs will kill you almost guaranteed.

"Normal" (to me tiny) sized maps often let you get away with blue murder in not defending yourself properly early on...often the ais expand quickly and there isn't much room for barbs to spawn too. Huge maps/marathon is all about protection first, hence Archery is almost always a sound move.

Edit: To LDiCesare and others, holkans while of course useful, may as well be Warriors when facing barb axes (and in my experience in some games Axes start spawning as soon as any other barbs). At least archers almost guarantee your cities will survive

 

[vicawoo]

I'd consider agriculture pottery if nobody is close by. If you want to rush a city, agriculture mining should be sufficient.

 

[MrG]

Thanks for the comments guys, I appreciate the feedback , although I think my much maligned approach, may be getting misconstrued.

Firstly, I'm researching archery because I won't be axe rushing and I can't guarantee I'll have copper or horses in my big fat cross. Archers also give me better defence against axemen than holkan's do, and can be built anywhere.

I also don't plan to be declaring war early so archers are cheaper than and as effective as other defensive units as a garrison.

With regards the tech path, yes Philosophy should have been in there, so apologies for missing that out. I figure, and this has been borne out in previous games that by the time I've got to Literature someone, will have researched alphabet and I can back fill my techs then. its worth pointing out that aesthetics, plus 2 turns of alphabet research will usually be considered a reasonable swap for alphabet itself. (apologies if that makes no sense)

Once you've done this I should be able to swap aesthetics for plenty of lower level techs with the other civilisations.

The reason for the tech path is I'll be aiming to build the great library for the free scientists to help me spawn more great scientists. Ultimately I'm aiming to lightbulb all the way to liberalism. If I get there first I'll take nationalism as the free tech (which wouldn't be available if I used the oracle) and ultimately

I'll be aiming to reach rifling, hopefully far before my rivals- at which point its war all the way.

When the time is right, I'll be drafting 20-30 rifles in double quick time, and simultaneously upgrading any macemen/axemen I may have at that time.

The reason I won't be aiming for the Oracle is that the tech path for it runs counter to the tech path to get to the great library, so I lose time, and it doesn't help the overall strategy.

With regards city placement, I take the point that has been made although i disagree with the point about moving my settler, the aim was to maximise food, which I have done because I want to grow my city as rapidly as possible.

With regards some of the suggested city placements being poor, honestly give me a break, I'm only 30 turn in.... I'm sure when I've cleared more ground I'll be in a much better position to choose where to dump cities.

Again these blocking cities will be placed as near to decent food supplies as possible.

With reference to slavery, I'll be using that to whip monuments and barracks (for my power rating) in all my cities beyond the first one.

Lastly I accept that I have to adapt to the map, and I will, you have to remember i'm 30 turns in, but its generally a good idea to block as much land off as possible, as I'm sure no-one would argue with, if what I find in the near future necesitates a change of strategy, then I'll change strategy.

Constructive feedback on that please, then I'll post some more turns later tonight.

Trust me this does work, although its the first time I've used it with Maya, but the financial trait should work, because hopefully most of my cities will be commerce cities.

 

[LDiCesare]

Archers also give me better defence against axemen than holkan's do, and can be built anywhere.

I still believe archery is a waste of time, on prince at least. You'll face archer and warrior barbs first, against whom holkans are the better unit. So you'll be able to build Holkans and, more importantly, whip, earlier. You may even find some bronze and get a production boost by researching bronze working before archery. Archers are only good at defending cities, which you don't want attacked by axemen to begin with as they'll come stomping though your wheat fields and razing them, and hills, which are map dependent. It's a good idea to put warriors (cheap) on hills to get rid of fog of war so less barbarians get spawned and you can see them coming. At the time, if you have Holkans, you'll hopefully see barbarian axemen 6 turns from your city, be able to lure them 2 turns further by sacrificing the warrior or a scout if needed, and at that time, you'll probably be able to research archery if you need it, that is if you don't have bronze.

You're also saying you're going to whip in all your cities beyond the first, but why not the first?
It's got tons of food. Sure, you may use that to get specialists, but it's a waste not to get 2 or 3 red heads and then cut these heads to build yourself a settler for instance.

 

[MrG]

right, I've got a clearer idea of what the map looks like now, this is the position 50 turns in, along with my suggested city sites.

As mentioned earlier they are where possible near food resources.

Note some locations have been moved slightly to take into account resources and other civ's locations.

Luckily I've got copper near my capital, so I'll be able to build axemen if push comes to shove and I need to, note there seems to be expansion scope to the south west, I'll move this way if circumstances allow it. directly east and north east has poor land, but a few gold resources.

the plan is to expand and block south east first, then south west followed by east and finally north west. If I pull that off I should ultimately be able to stick about 7-8 cities down before I run out of land.

Comments please on those proposals.

Thanks

 

[MrG]

I still believe archery is a waste of time, on prince at least. You'll face archer and warrior barbs first, against whom holkans are the better unit. So you'll be able to build Holkans and, more importantly, whip, earlier. You may even find some bronze and get a production boost by researching bronze working before archery. Archers are only good at defending cities, which you don't want attacked by axemen to begin with as they'll come stomping though your wheat fields and razing them, and hills, which are map dependent. It's a good idea to put warriors (cheap) on hills to get rid of fog of war so less barbarians get spawned and you can see them coming. At the time, if you have Holkans, you'll hopefully see barbarian axemen 6 turns from your city, be able to lure them 2 turns further by sacrificing the warrior or a scout if needed, and at that time, you'll probably be able to research archery if you need it, that is if you don't have bronze.

You're also saying you're going to whip in all your cities beyond the first, but why not the first?
It's got tons of food. Sure, you may use that to get specialists, but it's a waste not to get 2 or 3 red heads and then cut these heads to build yourself a settler for instance.

I take your point, the plan is to build the first city to capacity first so I can build settlers more quickly. if I get red heads I'll certainly whip, as it makes no sense not to. The bronze is now a moot point because I have copper, but I guess the choice of bronze working vs archery is a personal thing, and I certainly respect your views.

 

[Joshua368]

I take your point, the plan is to build the first city to capacity first so I can build settlers more quickly. if I get red heads I'll certainly whip, as it makes no sense not to. The bronze is now a moot point because I have copper, but I guess the choice of bronze working vs archery is a personal thing, and I certainly respect your views.

It's definitely true that you don't want to whip right before building a worker or settler, to halt the city before it can regrow... screwed up on this before and its a real head-hitting moment. however it's perfectly fine (as long as the city as ample food of course) to whip out those settlers when they get to 2-pop or so to get them out faster, and then let the city regrow in between. You probably won't be churning out settlers back-to-back.

I mean once your cities have a happy cap at around or above ten it makes sense not to whip regularly, but early on your capital will be restricted like every other city so there's no harm in getting extra production to quickly grab those sites.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

right, I've got a clearer idea of what the map looks like now, this is the position 50 turns in, along with my suggested city sites.

As mentioned earlier they are where possible near food resources.

Note some locations have been moved slightly to take into account resources and other civ's locations.

Luckily I've got copper near my capital, so I'll be able to build axemen if push comes to shove and I need to, note there seems to be expansion scope to the south west, I'll move this way if circumstances allow it. directly east and north east has poor land, but a few gold resources.

the plan is to expand and block south east first, then south west followed by east and finally north west. If I pull that off I should ultimately be able to stick about 7-8 cities down before I run out of land.

Comments please on those proposals.

Thanks

I dloaded your initial save, and played it through to finish. I won't spoil anything for you, by giving stuff away, so I'll keep it general.

1) I'd completely forgot how small a "normal" map was. Archery indeed is quite a waste on said map. I saw about 6 barbs the whole game. I'm used to huge maps/marathon which really is an entirely different game. My record on such a map is over 250 barbs killed I'm used to having a continent to myself with about 25-30 cities by 1200AD...you'd struggle to fit that many cities on this map

2) My plan was to build as few cities as possible, while founding Hindhu in cap and building Henge (this to get some "friends" asap, and not have to bother with border popping later--) I built the cap and two other cities (both soley for military).

3) I only built cottages and didn't whip a single thing in said 3 cities. I was careful to refuse open borders with any of my connecting neighbours.

4) The plan was to rush to construction then go destroy the world So the only thing I built was barrracks then troops in all but core three cities, using a "scorched earth" policy to fund the war, which never stopped from the moment I had cats.

5) Capture the GW asap, so I could leave as many cities as possible undefended(i.e. from barbs which never came anyway). Raze and pillage almost everything, only keeping a very few "prime" city conquests.

Finished razing the world in I think, 980AD. Didn't trade a single tech. Did it with a mix of swords, axes, eles, and of course cats.

Sorry, but that's the thing with "normal" (tiny) pangea, it's just too easy to go and trounce the world...you don't need boats, you can go and steal any wonder you want...when your power graph is high enough (which should be pretty fast), you can just demand other ais join your wars...(or just demand tribute if they are redlining war, which accomplishes the same thing..i.e. keeps them from joining the other side against you)

Oh and Prince is just a little too easy for me

This isn't meant to be bragging (apologies, just reread and it sounds a little that way)just some ideas if you want to go on a non stop rampage....

 

[LDiCesare]

This isn't meant to be bragging (apologies, just reread and it sounds a little that way)just some ideas if you want to go on a non stop rampage

Actually, I think most of what you say amounts to the same comments about planning towards Rifling, i.e. very far in advance. On Pangaea maps, particularly on not so big maps, people will often try to conquer the World during the Middle Ages (or with praetorians), so planning for farther looks strange.
But your way is definitely not the only one to go and a Rifling beeline strategy is probably doable too at this level.

It's definitely true that you don't want to whip right before building a worker or settler, to halt the city before it can regrow

I disagree. In the very early game, you(re right, but as soon as you get red faces, I totally disagree. If you lose enough pop to have just the good amount of happiness, building a worker/settler then is a good move because the city won't grow back to create an unhappy citizen during the whipping unhappiness period. If it's only after 10 turns (on normal speed) that growth can net you an extra useful citizen, then you are actually neutering the fact settlers/workers stop growth and I'd say the best time to build a worker is right after whipping if you whipped down to 0 excedent happiness.

 

[MattX]

Plenty of people talk and succeed by beelining rifling. Personally I quite like steel and cannon for levelling cities and the mop up units are almost irrelevant once maximum collateral damage has been achieved. Drill longbows and CR maces for instance.

 

[Joshua368]

I disagree. In the very early game, you(re right, but as soon as you get red faces, I totally disagree. If you lose enough pop to have just the good amount of happiness, building a worker/settler then is a good move because the city won't grow back to create an unhappy citizen during the whipping unhappiness period. If it's only after 10 turns (on normal speed) that growth can net you an extra useful citizen, then you are actually neutering the fact settlers/workers stop growth and I'd say the best time to build a worker is right after whipping if you whipped down to 0 excedent happiness.

Typically you want to 2-pop whip (or 3-pop if there's one unhappy citizen) so that the city has a chance to grow before reaching its new happy cap. Unless you're whipping a market/forge/temple which usually give happiness to cancel out the whip.

 

[harusame]

woah powerful start

imo, grab stone+sheep, 2golds+corn

 

[halflotus]

Build orders make me

Adapt and improvise makes me