Privateers?

[IrishBandit]

Do we know anything about them? Are they like the civ 4 ones where you can attack other civ's navy without declaring war?

 

[MadDjinn]

Do we know anything about them? Are they like the civ 4 ones where you can attack other civ's navy without declaring war?

They don't seem to be the Civ 4 style pirates.

Likely it's just another melee naval unit, to balance out the Frigates ranged attacks.

 

[Louis XXIV]

It appears to be a melee unit. Real privateers fought under the flags of their nation and were not pirates, so I don't think these are pirates.

 

[SG-17]

I hope that they can act like Barbarians like in Civ3.

A nice stipulation would be that if your Privateer would be destroyed you would receive a diplomatic penalty with the nation who destroyed it.

They should be able to enter foreign coastal territory and attack embarked units without declaring war.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Once again, they're not Pirates. They were officially sanctioned private vessels. An American privateer in the War of 1812, for example, would have flown the American flag and treated as a prisoner of war if caught. They would have had an official license (letter of mark and reprisal) that means that the government they're fighting for officially sanctions the fight. If they had flown a different flag or no flag, they would have been hung for piracy. But they didn't do this. So hidden nationality actually doesn't make that much sense.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

What would the sea beggar do then?

 

[SG-17]

Once again, they're not Pirates. They were officially sanctioned private vessels. An American privateer in the War of 1812, for example, would have flown the American flag and treated as a prisoner of war if caught. They would have had an official license (letter of mark and reprisal) that means that the government they're fighting for officially sanctions the fight. If they had flown a different flag or no flag, they would have been hung for piracy. But they didn't do this. So hidden nationality actually doesn't make that much sense.

Yes, I know this. However there should be a unit with piracy abilities.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

a nice stipulation would be that if your privateer would be destroyed you would receive a diplomatic penalty with the nation who destroyed it.

If that would be true then maybe the Sea Beggar (Dutch UU) could not receive a penalty if sunk by rival civ along with something extra?

 

[nokmirt]

What would the sea beggar do then?

I do not know but I have a huge book on piracy, I purchased awhile back. Let me look into it. These guys may be more like pirates with hidden nationality, perhaps they can capture vessels. I do hope privateers can do that.

In real life they did, many privateer captains built pretty decent sized squadrons from captured vessels. The other thing they reveled in was booty and prize money. They loved to capture nobles from countries they were at war with, so they could be ransomed.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yes, I know this. However there should be a unit with piracy abilities.

They're called Barbarians.

 

[Montov]

What would the sea beggar do then?

I assume it can pillage a city when attacking (not just when capturing cities). I've read that somewhere.

 

[Buccaneer]

Yes, I know this. However there should be a unit with piracy abilities.

No, only in Age of Piracy timeframe scenarios.

 

[SG-17]

Why not? They were balanced in Civ3 by being weak and beatable by even galleys.

 

[Louis XXIV]

That wasn't balance, it made them useless. Especially since everybody and their grandmother jumped out of buildings to attack them and, if you did use them, the AI would still get mad at you (which makes some sense since, because of the aforementioned constant attacking, you had to stack with your own units to protect them).

 

[SG-17]

Well then make them have a 50% chance of winning against an embarked unit (with a 5% chance of enslaving it) and a 50% chance of losing against an embarked unit.

Piracy vessels would be fast but completely helpless against naval warships. Their only focus would be raiding shipping.

 

[nokmirt]

Privateers in many cases were pirates with a letter of marque with a license to ply their trade legally. On the other hand nations hired pirate hunters just as much as privateers, to hunt down pirates, as well as privateers from enemy nations.

Also, many pirate vessels were upgunned and quite formidable. They, in some cases could stand off versus some national vessels including decent sized frigates.

 

[anandus]

Although, as said, privateers flew under a flag, it would be a nice touch if you wouldn't be able to see what nation enemy privateers are of, so you could attack another nation without the need of proper war and spread confusion.

Maybe even foment a war between two nations that don't like eachother and are wary of eachother. Send one privateer to harrass one nation, another privateer to harass the other and voila.

But probably just wishful thinking

 

[Raiki]

A quick thought:

1) I never played Civ IV, but from what I understand Privateers had hidden nationality. Why then, would Civ V introduce a unit called the privateer that didn't resemble the previous unit with the same name? Why not use any other name for the unit? There are plenty of other ship types not yet represented.

Add to this the fact that espionage is 1/2 of the major theme of G&K, and I don't see why it's so unreasonable to hope that the privateer works like...y'know...the privateer.

~R~

 

[KillingMeSoftly]

Add to this the fact that espionage is 1/2 of the major theme of G&K, and I don't see why it's so unreasonable to hope that the privateer works like...y'know...the privateer.

Agreed here, as they also come in the Renaissance when Espionage gets introduced. Would be fun to play around with. Makes a lot of sense from a flavor and fun gameplay standpoint, IMO.

 

[Louis XXIV]

A quick thought:

1) I never played Civ IV, but from what I understand Privateers had hidden nationality. Why then, would Civ V introduce a unit called the privateer that didn't resemble the previous unit with the same name? Why not use any other name for the unit? There are plenty of other ship types not yet represented.

Add to this the fact that espionage is 1/2 of the major theme of G&K, and I don't see why it's so unreasonable to hope that the privateer works like...y'know...the privateer.

~R~

As I've pointed out, the Privateer in Civ3 (I don't think it was in Civ4, but I could be wrong), was inaccurate. Firaxis is actually more accurate this time. It also never really worked effectively so it wasn't really as fun to use as it was supposed to be.