Problem Rendering Tiles

RYan_Hugo

Chieftain
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
10
Hi,
I posted on the 2K Forums (link) about a graphical issue, I got no answer from any Tech, only some people complaining about the same problem.
To the ones that don't want to read the whole post the issue is as it is presented on the following images:
http://img696.imageshack.us/f/exemple1j.jpg/
http://img841.imageshack.us/f/exemple2.jpg/

I'd like to know if anyone is having the same problems, and if there are any expected solutions, either from Firaxis or a Driver update.

My DXDiag is on the 2K post linked above, and so is all the important information.
I'd deeply appreciate some insight!

Thanks in advance :twitch:
 
Thanks for the reply, and for welcoming me.
Although as I said before I've already tried with all the video defs at the lowest possible option. Anyways I tried again with just he fog Of War altered and the issue still persists.
 
I have a somewhat similar issue and my specs are all perfect. Can't figure it out, either. Sometimes rebooting the game a bunch of times fixes it.
 
"For me, every now and then the game apparently forgets all the terrain textures and has to reload them. So I get several seconds of freeze followed by a gray terrain field that slowly fills in with the proper textures"

i get that problem too, especially when Im choosing research or using other interface screens this can happen like five times in a row, its so godamn annoying.
 
Well as for me it completely ruined my gameplay experience, I actually have no will to play, specially under those conditions. I love huge maps, and I don't see myself capable of using them on this version =\

What saddens me the most is that I don't see anything coming, neither from ATI nor Firaxis that would solve or at least alleviate the issue. I know there has been complains about how poorly coded the game seems to be, but my question is, is this one issue related to how it is coded at all or is it related a lot more to the hardware we're using?
I mean I know I don't have the best rig out there, and I know what it is capable of but I wouldn't expect this sort of issues on this kind of game, and I've seen people reporting no problems at all with older PC's.

Ironically this was the Civilization title supposed to run on a huge range of machines, from low-end to high-end... *sigh*
 
As stated on the OP, this happens on both, DX9 and DX10/11.

I had no problems running on DX10/11 for about 15 hours until 0.20 hit me and it started to crash all the time. On DX9 this doesn't happen, but the graphical issue still exists.

It does have Direct X support since it was brought to the public, it was actually the first to support Dx10.1.
 
On my rig, in DX10/11 mode texture redrawing only happens once for one area of map (first time you scroll to it). But, if I switch to DX9 mode, it happens constantly. There is even additional drawing when zooming it (never happening in DX10/11) mode.

By the way, it is working as designed.

http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,...h-Interview-What-DirectX-11-is-good-for/News/

From article:
2) DirectX 11 offers Direct Compute 5 for GGPU calculations. In what way does it allow you to optimize, simplify or speed up the rendering process in your game (e.g. post effects)?

Civilization V uses the Direct Compute Features for a new proprietary variable bit-rate texture compression. Users will notice that on high end DX11 native hardware, the leaders will appear almost instantly, regardless of how many civilizations are present. There will also be no paging-in on the textures in the background as they are loaded since the 2gigabytes of leader textures compress to less then 150mbs altogether. This type of compression was, until recently, considered impossible or impractical, but we believe this is just the tip of the iceberg for what can be done with Direct Compute.

One big difference in the DX11 version is the terrain. On DX11, we are able to have a much more detailed terrain, since we are able to get a 4x compression on the textures. This allows us to keep most of the terrain cached. The DX9 players will notice some paging while they go to new parts of the map however; this is generally a non-issue on the DX11 version. We were also able to have specularity on the terrain, so players will notice marshes and snow that reflect the sun. The DX11 version also has a more detailed fog of war (on the higher settings), which uses weather simulation dynamics for a more realistic cloud movement.


Now, it may be that DX10/11 mode is not fully "streaming-proof". But in DX9 mode it is much bigger issue when in DX10/11. In DX9 mode, all texture take much more memory space, so they need to be reloaded more often.

In your case, maybe because it's late game, there are just too many textures to handle even for DX10/11 (and you do have 512MB of video ram).

I would try a few things:
-does the issue happen less often if textures are changed to Low setting?
-does it happen less often if you switch to lower screen resolution?
-it is known that using AA takes additional video ram. Does turning it off reduce the issue?

For reference, I use 1280x1024 resolution (AAx4) and my GPU is 4850 with 512MB video ram. In my late game on standard map, when I discovered all tiles in the world, texture streaming only happens first time I scroll to some part of the map. And never again (until I load some other save or such).

Also, in DX9 mode, with late game save, RAM consumption is 3.6GB on my machine (4GB). But in DX10/11 mode, it's 3.1GB.
 
Thank you for your answer, anyways, yeh HD3870x2 is 512x2, still this only happens on Large or Huge maps, in a standard map it only happens once as it does to you.
I have done every possible test with/out AA, on DX9/11, low texture etc.. and it did not help at all.. however I didn't try on a lower resolution.
I will conduct some experiences with a low resolution and post the results, I guess if the situation persists I will have to play on standard maps.
Have you tried large/huge maps? does it only happen once as well?

PS: since .20 my Dx11 version crashes every time.
 
Haven't tried large/huge maps. Still playing my drawn out standard map sized game.

And testing at start of large/huge size game won't really be useful (since most of the area is dark).

.

How big is RAM consumption for you when playing the game?
 
There is a mod quite helpful, revealmapbutton that I used to test on maps of every size.
About the RAM I haven't yet had the possibility to try, i'll post as soon as I have gathered all the info.
 
Tried that mod.

And I can confirm that on huge maps with that mod, and map reveled, steaming does happen more then once.


P.S.
On the other hand, RAM consumption wasn't too big. 2.3GB of system ram was used. With Civ5 process Working with around 1.1GB (1.3GB committed). In my normal sized late save, 3.1GB was used by system, around 2GB by the game (3GB committed).

EDIT:
Same with large map revealed by that mod.

New game with normal map revealed. Streams only once. Just as in my late save game.

Now, it would be good if someone with 1GB video card could post some results.


EDIT2:
This is from GraphicsSettingsDX11.ini. Some of these settings have different value in GraphicsSettingsDX9.ini with same in-game options chosen.

; Terrain Page in Rate
TerrainPageinSpeedStill = 4

; Terrain Page in Rate
TerrainPageinSpeedMoving = 2

; Use more advanced GPU features which can cause some drivers to crash
TerrainUseAdvancedGPU = 0


; Init whole terrain before loading game
BlockOnLoad = 0

; Terrain Page in Rate
Terrain64Chunks = 4096

; Terrain Page in Rate
Terrain128Chunks = 512

; Terrain Page in Rate
Terrain256Chunks = 256

; Terrain Page in Rate
Terrain512Chunks = 64

; Enable bicubic terrain patches
BicubicTerrainTessellation = 0

; Target edge length of triangles in patches
BicubicTerrainTessTriSize = 4

; Default level of patch subdivision
BicubicTerrainTessSubdiv = 2

Could tweak to some of them decrease amount of streaming?


EDIT3:
Just to confirm: In DX9 mode with reveals whole map there is constant streaming, unlike DX10/11 on that map size. Also it streams in two layers. When zoomed out, and additional streaming when you zoom in.
 
Is the HD3870x2 memory DDR2 or DDR3? because if it's DDR2 you can stop wondering why you have streaming problems.

I have a EVGA 9800GT+ which is about as powerful as your card and I'm also having texture streaming problems.

Civ 5 is a very demanding and poorly optimized game. End of the story.

It's in the engine, not the hardware.
 
Civ 5 is a very demanding and poorly optimized game. End of the story.
It's in the engine, not the hardware.

Yeh, that's what I've been reading. As for my GFX it is indeed DDR3 'tho.


I did the low resolution test, and I did not help, I went through all the allowed resolutions (again, since patch .20 I'm not able to use DX10/11, so all this findings were under DX9), but none seem to help the issue, it didn't alleviate let alone fix.

On a large map, after using the MOD to reveal the map the idle RAM was about 1.5GB, since don't have any save game in late/mid game under this conditions I can't say for sure how much it would use under a processing turn, but seems it would spike to 2Gb not more.

About the files, I'm not sure but it seems awkward, but I'd like to see if some1 with 1Gb card has the same issue.
 
RYan_Hugo P said:
"For me, every now and then the game apparently forgets all the terrain textures and has to reload them. So I get several seconds of freeze followed by a gray terrain field that slowly fills in with the proper textures"
That's exactly what happens here, I've checked with ATI tools to show the amount of free video memory, and when the game goes into gray-redrawing mode, free memory jumps by 100+ MBs, indicating that the engine has indeed cleared a truckload of textures for no apparent reason (since it happens with 200+MBs of memory left on the card).

knugen said:
i get that problem too, especially when Im choosing research or using other interface screens this can happen like five times in a row, its so godamn annoying.
The UI causing this to happen like clockwork seems very specific to ATI X1xxx cards, have you got one of those ?

Firaxis doesn't seem to want to support those cards sadly ("below reqs" ...), but if people like the OP are having the same sort of problem on newer cards there is hope ...
 
That's exactly what happens here, I've checked with ATI tools to show the amount of free video memory, and when the game goes into gray-redrawing mode, free memory jumps by 100+ MBs, indicating that the engine has indeed cleared a truckload of textures for no apparent reason (since it happens with 200+MBs of memory left on the card).

Or maybe it cleared some other textures, so it would have memory to show those textures that start grey.
 
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