Procylon's Call to Power Project

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Where I find v7 ?? On the SourceForge i find only Procylon_s Call to Power Project (v 6).civ5mod - 6.6 mb.

I beleive he said he took 7 down for now due to issues.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

D -

Have you considered trying the harder free tech mod? http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9895804#post9895804

This might help with over teching the AI? I know that I have sling shotted 3 techs down before. I used the science free 2 SP and a GS to go 3 down to rifling I think. I know I went 3 down and had a huge advantage. I would not have been able to do this with that mod. It might work with yours (I would ask him for usage and give credit) in slowing down the human from huge tech advantages. Maybe it won't have an effect.

 

[Redx]

some people might not like the cities in water..and space... but i have always wanted a progression in civilization that would continue in game.. to the alpha centurie which was a great game like civ3..

maybe the aspect to launch a space shuttle could be more expensive and would require diplomacy trading to finance the colossal project..where the less fortunate civ could continue on to the next level and start off on another planet thus giving every one a second chance to wage war or gain points..maybe also adding a little bonus to the new starting civ that completed the project thought it could interfer with different victory types like war...on that planet.. i personally would love seeing that later on as an addition to the game.. in an expansion or simply a mod option..

 

[Decimatus]

Uploading a hopefully fixed V7 to sourceforge. If a few people can download this to see if it works, including saving/loading, I would appreciate it.

Removed the slave and fixed many broken text strings in the nano age. I might do a few more fixes here and there before I upload to the modhub. Right now I just need to see that the prior issues are gone.

Later on, maybe in the next few days, I will try to go back through the last couple pages of this thread and address any questions or ideas that people have had which I have not been able to get to.

You know you enjoyed it here in Seattle. It is lovely up here this time of year. Minus the rain and snow and gray and dark.

Well I like the rain and gray and dark... just not the snow. But Seattle is great.

4 days was more than enough for me, at least vacation-wise. Actually it wasn't so bad. It was mostly sunny for my stay. I can see the winters really sucking with snow on all those crazy hills. I didn't know Seattle was so vertical.

It seems like a decent city I could move to one day, though my wife hates rain, and driving on those hills when they are iced over sounds like a nightmare.

Have you considered trying the harder free tech mod?

I have actually. It sounds like a decent system, though I am contemplating another route where you can't bulb any of the techs in the main tree. Couldn't really do this until I have a sufficient amount of optional tech pages though.

I could possibly do both, but I will wait until I get the optional pages implemented before I start working on that.

some people might not like the cities in water..and space... but i have always wanted a progression in civilization that would continue in game.. to the alpha centurie which was a great game like civ3..

maybe the aspect to launch a space shuttle could be more expensive and would require diplomacy trading to finance the colossal project..where the less fortunate civ could continue on to the next level and start off on another planet thus giving every one a second chance to wage war or gain points..maybe also adding a little bonus to the new starting civ that completed the project thought it could interfer with different victory types like war...on that planet.. i personally would love seeing that later on as an addition to the game.. in an expansion or simply a mod option..

It would be interesting, but I doubt we will ever see it go quite that far in Civ 5.

If I see someone pump out a system that lets you do something akin to alpha centauri though, I will see if I can build a third or fourth future era around the concept.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Uploading a hopefully fixed V7 to sourceforge. If a few people can download this to see if it works, including saving/loading, I would appreciate it.

Removed the slave and fixed many broken text strings in the nano age. I might do a few more fixes here and there before I upload to the modhub. Right now I just need to see that the prior issues are gone.

I might get a chance. Not tonight though.

On slave thing, what about a caravan? Someone else made one. Maybe you can talk to them to see how they did it? I forget which mod I say it in.

Later on, maybe in the next few days, I will try to go back through the last couple pages of this thread and address any questions or ideas that people have had which I have not been able to get to.



4 days was more than enough for me, at least vacation-wise. Actually it wasn't so bad. It was mostly sunny for my stay. I can see the winters really sucking with snow on all those crazy hills. I didn't know Seattle was so vertical.

It seems like a decent city I could move to one day, though my wife hates rain, and driving on those hills when they are iced over sounds like a nightmare.

It was crazy the 3 days of snow we had before thanksgiving. I ride van pool. We opted to go home at noon and work remotely. Thank you internet and laptop from work. We got home ok, but I heard anywhere from 6 hours to 12 hours to get home. One poor guy was on bus for those 12 hours. He got home at like 5 something in the morning after leaving the night before.

Yeah, we don't do good in snow. And for hills, there is something called "The Denny Roll-back" Denny is a main street (if you didn't find it) that is probably one of the steepest. It gets that from old manual transmissions. Comedians used to do bits on telling people behind them to go around because they didn't want to roll back.

I have actually. It sounds like a decent system, though I am contemplating another route where you can't bulb any of the techs in the main tree. Couldn't really do this until I have a sufficient amount of optional tech pages though.

I could possibly do both, but I will wait until I get the optional pages implemented before I start working on that.

Not sure I like idea of never being able to tech forward; but as it is so overpowered I don't know. With a SDK and random tech seems like a good thing. If ever a SDK. That one did sound best to me so far.

It would be interesting, but I doubt we will ever see it go quite that far in Civ 5.

If I see someone pump out a system that lets you do something akin to alpha centauri though, I will see if I can build a third or fourth future era around the concept.

No comment. I never played that game and like civ on earth.

 

[Decimatus]

I might get a chance. Not tonight though.

On slave thing, what about a caravan? Someone else made one. Maybe you can talk to them to see how they did it? I forget which mod I say it in.

I think I took a look at the posts and concept, but I don't think they got the AI to handle them any better than I did. Could be better now, but I think I will look into it at a later date.

It was crazy the 3 days of snow we had before thanksgiving. I ride van pool. We opted to go home at noon and work remotely. Thank you internet and laptop from work. We got home ok, but I heard anywhere from 6 hours to 12 hours to get home. One poor guy was on bus for those 12 hours. He got home at like 5 something in the morning after leaving the night before.

Yeah, we don't do good in snow. And for hills, there is something called "The Denny Roll-back" Denny is a main street (if you didn't find it) that is probably one of the steepest. It gets that from old manual transmissions. Comedians used to do bits on telling people behind them to go around because they didn't want to roll back.

Yeah I took Denny up from the port to get back on 5, and those hills were interesting to say the least. lol It didn't help that the genius behind me was riding my tail at every red light.

Not sure I like idea of never being able to tech forward; but as it is so overpowered I don't know. With a SDK and random tech seems like a good thing. If ever a SDK. That one did sound best to me so far.

Random could be good. Mainly I want to increase the number of great people in general, and balance the great scientists so that they pop side techs instead of main techs. You won't be moving forward, but the bonuses on the optional techs will be nice to have, especially since you may not have researched them otherwise.

The optional tech pages are my main project this month, and I have a good number of days off, so I should be able to work out something good.

 

[ikillu64]

Wow, I haven't posted here for a while.

On the issue of free techs, I think they should stay how they are right now. I think free techs provided by great scientists are supposed to be the great scientist researching it and inventing it. Like take the Wright brothers for example. They had the first successful flight by themselves, so the government got a free tech. (Sorry if I didn't explain it well, I'm not sure how to put it in words)

I really like V6 BTW, and I will download V7 after classes today.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Wow, I haven't posted here for a while.

On the issue of free techs, I think they should stay how they are right now. I think free techs provided by great scientists are supposed to be the great scientist researching it and inventing it. Like take the Wright brothers for example. They had the first successful flight by themselves, so the government got a free tech. (Sorry if I didn't explain it well, I'm not sure how to put it in words)

I really like V6 BTW, and I will download V7 after classes today.

But here is the problem with what you say. Lets look at history as you did. Did the government tell the Wright brothers to research that? Sometimes yes the government told the scientist what to do. Other times no. The issue is that fact that the AI can't handle the concept of teching 3 deep for a juicy tech and thereby steamrolling the human. The human on the other hand can do that.

This is for balanced game, not realism.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

I don't remember you talking about this. So I wanted to offer a suggestion:

I like the idea of diffrent road types. In Rise of Mankind for Civ IV they had something like: cart paths, roads, paved roads, railroads, highways?, mag lev lanes. Anway some of the later ones I'm sure I got wrong. It has been a while. I think that would make a good addition to your mod.

Animal Husbandry:
Foot paths:
no maintenance
+ 1 tile to movement

Wheel:
Road:
maintenance
+ 2 tiles to movement
+ trade connection

(Good tech between wheel and steam engine?):
Paved roads:
no maintenance
+ 2 tiles to movement

Steam engine:
railroads:
maintenance
+ 4 tiles to movement
+ trade connection

(tank or mech infantry? Think big paving machine)
Highways:
no maintenance
+ 4 tiles to movement

(Some future tech)
mag lev lanes
maintenance
+ 8 tiles to movement
+ trade connection

Following the above;
all trade connections cost you. But trade gets some back.
Your movement for unpaid is set to the last paid transportation method.

I picked arbitrary numbers, but think that is a good model. Unpaid is half of paid. Each era step doubles.

What do you think to add to your MOD?

 

[chrome-rome]

Good to see you active again Decimatus; don't worry, the community has been keeping this thread warm for you

I really like the concept of the scientist popping the optional techs instead of main branch techs, but I don't really understand how the optional trees are going to work. Will they be like social policies in that they grant benefits to certain aspects (increased culture, bonuses to improvements, etc) or more like standard techs that give extra buildings and units? I would suggest more along the lines of the first option, with the bonus techs making certain improvements/terrain more profitable. That way, there would be a clear tradeoff between technical superiority and terrain optimization. Or perhaps they can make certain units more effective in combat, sort of like an improved method of iron working that increase strenth of swordsmen, or even better manufacturing techniques that lower the cost of producing specified units. These are just a few routes that I think would be interesting to take, but I'm sure you already have your own ideas. Can't wait to see what you come out with

 

[ikillu64]

But here is the problem with what you say. Lets look at history as you did. Did the government tell the Wright brothers to research that? Sometimes yes the government told the scientist what to do. Other times no. The issue is that fact that the AI can't handle the concept of teching 3 deep for a juicy tech and thereby steamrolling the human. The human on the other hand can do that.

This is for balanced game, not realism.

I understand that it is about balance, I was just trying to give a reason to why you get a free tech from scientists, but if your going for balance then Harder Free Tech is great!

 

[Decimatus]

Wow, I haven't posted here for a while.

On the issue of free techs, I think they should stay how they are right now. I think free techs provided by great scientists are supposed to be the great scientist researching it and inventing it. Like take the Wright brothers for example. They had the first successful flight by themselves, so the government got a free tech. (Sorry if I didn't explain it well, I'm not sure how to put it in words)

I really like V6 BTW, and I will download V7 after classes today.

But here is the problem with what you say. Lets look at history as you did. Did the government tell the Wright brothers to research that? Sometimes yes the government told the scientist what to do. Other times no. The issue is that fact that the AI can't handle the concept of teching 3 deep for a juicy tech and thereby steamrolling the human. The human on the other hand can do that.

This is for balanced game, not realism.

There are merits to both sides, but Yankin is right about the AI not being anywhere near as good at beelining as the human can be.

My biggest foreseeable problem moving forward with optional techs may well be that the AI doesn't know how to differentiate very well between the optional techs and the mainline techs. I will probably put flavors on the optional techs somewhere around half or less than the mainline techs, but we will see if that actually works.

I did make a change to the way the AI looks at city sizes, so tell me if you guys see a difference in your games. Most especially post renaissance.

The AI used to look at city sizes as such:

Small - 2
Medium - 8
Large - 15

Now:

Small - 5
Medium - 20
Large - 40


My hope is that this prods the AI into producing larger cities in and beyond industrial, but we will see. I might have to throw in some other gimmicks for the AI to look at as well.

This doesn't fix beelining, but hopefully the larger population allows the AI to keep tech parity into the later eras.

I will see about doing something with free techs and whatnot later down the line as I implement the extra pages.

I don't remember you talking about this. So I wanted to offer a suggestion:

I like the idea of diffrent road types. In Rise of Mankind for Civ IV they had something like: cart paths, roads, paved roads, railroads, highways?, mag lev lanes. Anway some of the later ones I'm sure I got wrong. It has been a while. I think that would make a good addition to your mod.

Foot/cart path and roads are currently a little too close on the tree for them to be separate. And I don't quite see cart path's as requiring a tech. Sounds more like a natural occurrence of everyday travel.

As for the others, I might like to see a somewhat different system.

In general, I would like to have railroads/maglevs as the major post industrial/future city trade connecting improvements. Expensive to maintain, but huge advantage over roads for trade income.

Roads on the other hand would be more about general tile improvement, since every farm, plantation, and mine benefits greatly from a paved 2-4 lane road.

It would bring back the road spaghetti to a certain extent which is why I would want some toned down road artwork. Has anyone even tried covered their entire land with roads for the heck of it? I don't even know what it looks like in Civ 5.

So in my ideal system, the land would be covered with low-key roads and punctuated by rails and maglevs along the major trade and unit corridors.

In general I don't want too many different road types though. In the case of highways, I would have to somehow get them to coexist on the same tiles as railroads or else they would be useless. And I don't really want the player to have to sort through several different road types on a given tile even if I could figure out how to make them coexist.

Perhaps a class of route could be made that would be both rail and highway? But that would of course require some unique artwork, and possibly give the player something else that they don't want to micromanage.

The best route for now is the 3 tiered road/rail/maglev system found in CtP. If I can get some subdued artwork for a spaghetti road system I might implement that in conjunction with more bonuses for rails. I wouldn't mind railroad bonuses jumping to something like +20% or more to gold, production, and food. And possibly some extra bonuses to trade income generated if I can figure out where that is linked to the routes.

I really like the concept of the scientist popping the optional techs instead of main branch techs, but I don't really understand how the optional trees are going to work. Will they be like social policies in that they grant benefits to certain aspects (increased culture, bonuses to improvements, etc) or more like standard techs that give extra buildings and units? I would suggest more along the lines of the first option, with the bonus techs making certain improvements/terrain more profitable. That way, there would be a clear tradeoff between technical superiority and terrain optimization. Or perhaps they can make certain units more effective in combat, sort of like an improved method of iron working that increase strenth of swordsmen, or even better manufacturing techniques that lower the cost of producing specified units. These are just a few routes that I think would be interesting to take, but I'm sure you already have your own ideas. Can't wait to see what you come out with

My best analogy for option techs is to point to world war 2. America pushes for light carriers, light tanks, mass produce-able stuff, heavier bombers, etc. Japan pushes for some huge battleships, big carriers, and faster fighters. Germany is pushing for heavier tanks, giant artilleries, V2 rockets, and submarines.

I want to reflect these differences using optional tech pages, and even civilization specific tech pages.

So if you find yourself on the eve of WW2, you might decide that instead of going for Pharmaceuticals and other economy techs, you need to research some heavier tanks, more efficient factories, tougher fortifications, early guided missiles, or who knows what.

I don't want to get too terribly specific, and hopefully players won't be overwhelmed by the choices, but I want to allow for some good specialization through the ages.

Some non-WW2 examples might be terrace farming to allow for farms on hills, green energy technologies, techs to make mines and other improvements more efficient, etc.

Of course wonders, units, and buildings would come in there as well depending on the idea behind the tech/branch. Probably even some religious and government themed tech pages.

Optional techs combined with expanded social policy pages are pretty much my 2 main near-midterm objectives while I wait for art assets and other special systems to be created by some of the professional programmers.

 

[ikillu64]

My biggest foreseeable problem moving forward with optional techs may well be that the AI doesn't know how to differentiate very well between the optional techs and the mainline techs. I will probably put flavors on the optional techs somewhere around half or less than the mainline techs, but we will see if that actually works.

In Civilization Nights mod, it has a tech tree with dead ends, different branches, etc and the AI seems to handle it fairly well.I would really like to see something implemented into CtP, but for now optional techs would be a great addition.

The best route for now is the 3 tiered road/rail/maglev system found in CtP. If I can get some subdued artwork for a spaghetti road system I might implement that in conjunction with more bonuses for rails. I wouldn't mind railroad bonuses jumping to something like +20% or more to gold, production, and food. And possibly some extra bonuses to trade income generated if I can figure out where that is linked to the routes.

One thing I'm always irritated by in Civilization is it doesn't focus on the population benefit at all. I would think people would appreciate the roads, and would like getting around easier, and so that would result in more happiness.

 

[Decimatus]

In Civilization Nights mod, it has a tech tree with dead ends, different branches, etc and the AI seems to handle it fairly well.I would really like to see something implemented into CtP, but for now optional techs would be a great addition.

The optional pages will work like that in a way. The frayed edges and dead ends of the tech tree. There may also be some trees within the optional pages, but perhaps most will be short 1-3 tech specializations.

I just have to make sure the AI doesn't spend too much time sitting in the optional tech pages while the player sprints several era's ahead of it. One of the main reason I am leaning towards limiting the free techs to the optional pages.

One thing I'm always irritated by in Civilization is it doesn't focus on the population benefit at all. I would think people would appreciate the roads, and would like getting around easier, and so that would result in more happiness.

Well roads are often under-appreciated anyway. At least until you find yourself lacking one. Civilization just needs to put more economic emphasis on their use. Right now you build roads for military movement and a meager trade income. Roads do quite a lot more for your civilization than those 2 minor functions.

If you have a road on a tile with a farm, naturally the tile produces more food for the nearby city. Or the farmers sell more for gold, which you tax. Or the farmers can do more with that land thereby increasing production.

I am not sure how much work would be required to give routes a % based modifier, but I would like to see it. Road gives +X% to food, gold, and production on the tile. Railroad gives say double the trade benefit for connected cities, and when you connect your railroad network to a resource, it's output doubles. So rails would go between cities, and stretch out to those resources.

Along that same line of thought, I would like to see the water based trade routes vastly increased in effectiveness/importance since they were/are critical to trade between cities and empires, even after rails but most especially before.

I would even like to see visible trade routes appear on the map for pillaging, and they route themselves based upon the fastest path to their destination, be that by land or sea. That was great mechanic in CtP because you had to have ships out their protecting your sea lanes from pirates. Of course if I can get that in the game then I would love to see resources moving along those routes, ala CtP.

Some of the things I would like to see, but tough to implement at this point. I may not be able to create those systems myself, but I will certainly try to make it happen.

 

[FredMB]

Hi Decimatus

I have to say that I really like the premise of this Mod. I've always wanted a Mod that goes beyond the usual 2100 end time and this one definitely delivers. I gave V7 a play through and this is what I found.

Mods I used with yours without any problems:
Attila's Mod v10
Copasetic UI Tweaks v3
Harder Free Tech v2
Tech Diffusion v2
Tech Overflow v1
Thal's Utilities v1

I played a quick game as Russia and made it all the way to turn 301 before the game started crashing. The game would crash on France's turn, there was nothing I could to to prevent it. I could have won the game much earlier but decided to let it run as long as possible.

I've attached a screen shot of the final stable turn.

Things that jump to the eye:
2.6 million in Gold. 68845 Gold per Turn. 1225 Happiness. 126 Turns Golden Age.

The buildings seem to be somewhat overpowered. I built every one of them in most cities except the factories that required resources. I love what you've done with them though. Especially the fact that you now need resources to build factories instead of units, love that. The battleship's seemed to still require oil though, not sure of that was a bug or what.

Great people were being born too often, one or two per turn. The Golden Age counter kept going up every turn.

As for culture I could have built the Utopia Project in 1916 with 35 cities in my empire. Have you considered increasing the cost of policies or changing the number of required branches? I left it running and completed 8 branches (all except Autocracy and Rationalism) in the year 1980 or so.

I don't know if it was a bug or what but I was bale to build some farms on some snow tiles, but not all of them.

Have you considered using Lost with Upgrade with the Artillery's Must Set Up promotion? When upgraded to Rocket Artillery and Mass Driver Artillery they still needed to set up before firing. I don't know if it was intentional or not.

The new splash screens for the Wonders are awesome. Your artist did an awesome job. But There wasn't any for the Dinosaur park though.

So awesome job with the Mod. Looking forward to playing future versions.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Foot/cart path and roads are currently a little too close on the tree for them to be separate. And I don't quite see cart path's as requiring a tech. Sounds more like a natural occurrence of everyday travel.

As for the others, I might like to see a somewhat different system.

In general, I would like to have railroads/maglevs as the major post industrial/future city trade connecting improvements. Expensive to maintain, but huge advantage over roads for trade income.

Roads on the other hand would be more about general tile improvement, since every farm, plantation, and mine benefits greatly from a paved 2-4 lane road.

It would bring back the road spaghetti to a certain extent which is why I would want some toned down road artwork. Has anyone even tried covered their entire land with roads for the heck of it? I don't even know what it looks like in Civ 5.

So in my ideal system, the land would be covered with low-key roads and punctuated by rails and maglevs along the major trade and unit corridors.

In general I don't want too many different road types though. In the case of highways, I would have to somehow get them to coexist on the same tiles as railroads or else they would be useless. And I don't really want the player to have to sort through several different road types on a given tile even if I could figure out how to make them coexist.

Perhaps a class of route could be made that would be both rail and highway? But that would of course require some unique artwork, and possibly give the player something else that they don't want to micromanage.

The best route for now is the 3 tiered road/rail/maglev system found in CtP. If I can get some subdued artwork for a spaghetti road system I might implement that in conjunction with more bonuses for rails. I wouldn't mind railroad bonuses jumping to something like +20% or more to gold, production, and food. And possibly some extra bonuses to trade income generated if I can figure out where that is linked to the routes.

Yes I have built roads everywhere. See this video here. I hope you like that I reply with videos of my examples with voice over. I explain in the video about my thought for roads.

Maybe I did a bad job explaining. Basically you get 3 tiers of "roads". At each tier you get a free of maintenance and paid version. Free of maintenance is last tiers speed, i.e. half. Paid version gets you the route.

I am all for having the free version be very graphic light. See my video for road sprawl.

My best analogy for option techs is to point to world war 2. America pushes for light carriers, light tanks, mass produce-able stuff, heavier bombers, etc. Japan pushes for some huge battleships, big carriers, and faster fighters. Germany is pushing for heavier tanks, giant artilleries, V2 rockets, and submarines.

I want to reflect these differences using optional tech pages, and even civilization specific tech pages.

So if you find yourself on the eve of WW2, you might decide that instead of going for Pharmaceuticals and other economy techs, you need to research some heavier tanks, more efficient factories, tougher fortifications, early guided missiles, or who knows what.

I don't want to get too terribly specific, and hopefully players won't be overwhelmed by the choices, but I want to allow for some good specialization through the ages.

Some non-WW2 examples might be terrace farming to allow for farms on hills, green energy technologies, techs to make mines and other improvements more efficient, etc.

Of course wonders, units, and buildings would come in there as well depending on the idea behind the tech/branch. Probably even some religious and government themed tech pages.

Optional techs combined with expanded social policy pages are pretty much my 2 main near-midterm objectives while I wait for art assets and other special systems to be created by some of the professional programmers.

That sounds better than I originally thought. I like this and hope it works.

The optional pages will work like that in a way. The frayed edges and dead ends of the tech tree. There may also be some trees within the optional pages, but perhaps most will be short 1-3 tech specializations.

I just have to make sure the AI doesn't spend too much time sitting in the optional tech pages while the player sprints several era's ahead of it. One of the main reason I am leaning towards limiting the free techs to the optional pages.



Well roads are often under-appreciated anyway. At least until you find yourself lacking one. Civilization just needs to put more economic emphasis on their use. Right now you build roads for military movement and a meager trade income. Roads do quite a lot more for your civilization than those 2 minor functions.

If you have a road on a tile with a farm, naturally the tile produces more food for the nearby city. Or the farmers sell more for gold, which you tax. Or the farmers can do more with that land thereby increasing production.

I am not sure how much work would be required to give routes a % based modifier, but I would like to see it. Road gives +X% to food, gold, and production on the tile. Railroad gives say double the trade benefit for connected cities, and when you connect your railroad network to a resource, it's output doubles. So rails would go between cities, and stretch out to those resources.

Along that same line of thought, I would like to see the water based trade routes vastly increased in effectiveness/importance since they were/are critical to trade between cities and empires, even after rails but most especially before.

I would even like to see visible trade routes appear on the map for pillaging, and they route themselves based upon the fastest path to their destination, be that by land or sea. That was great mechanic in CtP because you had to have ships out their protecting your sea lanes from pirates. Of course if I can get that in the game then I would love to see resources moving along those routes, ala CtP.

Some of the things I would like to see, but tough to implement at this point. I may not be able to create those systems myself, but I will certainly try to make it happen.

I like this. This is your mod; I couldn't ever get mine to work. I would still love a 3 (or 4) tier system that has free and paid versions.

After a couple of hours of tinkering and coding I'm happy to announce that Great Scientists will be nerfed in the next version. They are going to work similar to the Great Merchant in that their ability only creates a maximum amount of beakers (if the amount of beakers is higher than the tech cost they simply finish the tech). I will also implement a cooldown period of 10 turns for them so you can't save up a couple to quickly research a tech. The number of beakers is open for negotiation

Both will be probably player-only, though. I can't add new unit actions to the AI without SDK access. Luckily, they don't exploit GS much.

The new patch notes also sound encouraging about the AI.

On second thought I will make the GS beakers depend on the number of techs you have researched rather than era. The game already gives you enough benefits for deep beelines so I think giving some for broad research is only fair.

So, <30 techs: 1000
30-39 techs: 1500
40-49 techs: 2000
50-59 techs: 3000
60-64 techs: 4000
65-69 techs: 5000
>= 70 techs: 6000

See here for what someone else did to scientists. I kinda like this.

 

[chrome-rome]

I also like your explanation. As for the roads though, could you perhaps shorten the time to make roads or create upgrades to workers that build roads faster? It's tedius enough to make one set of roads, let alone two or three (or four)

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Endless crash to desktop. I do not know what causes it. I basically all ready won anyway as I was a powerhouse making 20k gold a turn. 17k science a turn. biggest city 70 pop I think. All buildings built.

 

[Decimatus]

I have decided to delay uploading the final V7 fix to the hub until after the devs patch this week. After that I will make sure it still works, maybe change a few things here or there, and then post it.

You can of course still get it on SourceForge.

Yes I have built roads everywhere. See this video here. I hope you like that I reply with videos of my examples with voice over. I explain in the video about my thought for roads.

Maybe I did a bad job explaining. Basically you get 3 tiers of "roads". At each tier you get a free of maintenance and paid version. Free of maintenance is last tiers speed, i.e. half. Paid version gets you the route.

I am all for having the free version be very graphic light. See my video for road sprawl.

The video was good, though perhaps a bit long. I think I will take a look at some of your other videos since you have taken the time to make them and I am in broadband land again.

Some points about the video.

How would you want to see foot/cart paths implemented? The biggest problem I see would be balance. Since units already move 2 hexes a turn, allowing a cheap means for them to do it all over your territory perhaps regardless of forest/hills seems like it would be a bit game breaking, or at least conceptually flawed in that units zip about the territory more than is realistic.

Perhaps if I can work it so that the footpath merely removes the penalty for road and jungle movement. I don't think that is a standard scheme though, so it might have to wait.

And of course I also feel that the road and foot path would still be too close together in my current tech tree. Sometime further down the line(long term really) when I expand ancient, classical, and medieval out to 4 techs wide it would have a little more room to breathe.

I do agree that the current system doesn't really represent how road systems evolve. Classical Civ Spaghetti doesn't quite cover it in that it represents only 1-2 road types over the ages and all are equal when placed on a tile.

So cheap no-maint roads is something I am interested in, as long as I can fit them in the tech tree, find low key art for them, and balance their bonuses to suit their purposes.

Since the view of the Civ map is a high aerial/low orbit view, I would like the standard tile roads to be mostly unnoticeable. Similar to the roads found on trading posts, but perhaps even less substantial. And of course the main corridors would be lined with adequately expensive-to-maintain rails, which would be visible as they currently are.

Highways are a big question for me. The difficulty of creating them so that they coexist with rails may be pretty high.

Another big problem is that the worker AI(I doubt the upcoming patch helps much with the dual route system) isn't really smart enough to handle these situations where most players would want them to take care of all the mundane road upgrades without ruining things. And if we have 2 classes of routes on the map at the same time, the workers will have an even harder time figuring it out.

It won't happen anytime soon either way, so we will just have to ponder it for awhile and keep an eye out for some unique systems that might address the issues.


More about your video. The cities seem pretty small compared to most of my playthroughs and other reports. Do you normally go for a tradepost economy, or do you just automate the workers? I generally never build a single tradepost in my games, going for farms, mines, and mills, so my cities get pretty large post industrial.

How is the AI era's compared to your own in that video?

See here for what someone else did to scientists. I kinda like this.

Sounds like an ok system, though I would need it to scale up to be relevant to techs that cost 200k beakers.

Hi Decimatus

I have to say that I really like the premise of this Mod. I've always wanted a Mod that goes beyond the usual 2100 end time and this one definitely delivers. I gave V7 a play through and this is what I found.

Glad you like it.

I played a quick game as Russia and made it all the way to turn 301 before the game started crashing. The game would crash on France's turn, there was nothing I could to to prevent it. I could have won the game much earlier but decided to let it run as long as possible.

I have yet to have any endgame crashing with this mod, though I know it happens regularly enough to be super annoying in the vanilla game.

Do you guys feel like it is happening more or less than vanilla?

Things that jump to the eye:
2.6 million in Gold. 68845 Gold per Turn. 1225 Happiness. 126 Turns Golden Age.

In the next patch they are capping happiness per city at each city's population, so I will be interested to see how this affects everyone's happiness numbers.

As far as the gold, I still need to increase the gold sinks and perhaps add some more in. Do you have a reference for about how much it was costing you to buy a standard unit?

The buildings seem to be somewhat overpowered. I built every one of them in most cities except the factories that required resources. I love what you've done with them though. Especially the fact that you now need resources to build factories instead of units, love that. The battleship's seemed to still require oil though, not sure of that was a bug or what.

Any specific cases of buildings or strings of buildings being overpowered? I balanced it so that buildings get progressively better over the ages, especially starting with the industrial revolution. I really want to get the feel of mass production and how we went from creating thousands of tons of things to billions of tons. Some things I would especially like to balance are the missiles and aircraft. They may be too cheap at the moment.

I had to add resource requirements to a handful of units so that they would show up as strategic resources on your UI. At some point I will make it so that certain optional units have those requirements instead.

Great people were being born too often, one or two per turn. The Golden Age counter kept going up every turn.

It does turn into a bit of a flood as the game progresses, especially with great engineers. Given the vast number of specialist slots I have added, I may look into cutting GP points by 1 per specialist. Or maybe more, but I will try 1 first and see how it works out.

As for culture I could have built the Utopia Project in 1916 with 35 cities in my empire. Have you considered increasing the cost of policies or changing the number of required branches? I left it running and completed 8 branches (all except Autocracy and Rationalism) in the year 1980 or so.

Once FiresForever releases the multiple social policy page mod, I plan to add 4-8 pages of social policies to include 10+ governments, 10+ religions, and dozens of flavor and specialization policy trees.

Once I have that added, I will try and balance policy costs and utopia victory conditions.

I have some of this outlined in the first post, so take a look at my current musings and let me know if you have any suggestions.

I don't know if it was a bug or what but I was bale to build some farms on some snow tiles, but not all of them.

Did you mouse over the tiles to see what they actually were? I have seen certain graphical bugs where a tile looks like 1 terrain, but is actually another. Most common regarding mountains, but probably possible with others.

Have you considered using Lost with Upgrade with the Artillery's Must Set Up promotion? When upgraded to Rocket Artillery and Mass Driver Artillery they still needed to set up before firing. I don't know if it was intentional or not.

I think I looked at that before and set it off to the side for more important things. It is on my to do list now, so maybe I can take care of it in the next day or so. Thanks for the reminder.

The new splash screens for the Wonders are awesome. Your artist did an awesome job. But There wasn't any for the Dinosaur park though.

So awesome job with the Mod. Looking forward to playing future versions.

You can thank Dr Balthar on the official forums for them. He is still working on a few more I think.

Glad you enjoy it, hopefully I can keep quality updates coming well into the future.

I also like your explanation. As for the roads though, could you perhaps shorten the time to make roads or create upgrades to workers that build roads faster? It's tedius enough to make one set of roads, let alone two or three (or four)

How long is it taking you guys to complete roads and rails?

I am considering adding in a line of worker upgrades such as engineers and whatnot. Not sure when this might happen. How do you guys want it to scale? Engineer pumping out a railroad on a plains in 2 turns? 3?

Endless crash to desktop. I do not know what causes it. I basically all ready won anyway as I was a powerhouse making 20k gold a turn. 17k science a turn. biggest city 70 pop I think. All buildings built.

Would you say your CtD experiences with this mod are about the same as with vanilla, or different?

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

I have decided to delay uploading the final V7 fix to the hub until after the devs patch this week. After that I will make sure it still works, maybe change a few things here or there, and then post it.

You can of course still get it on SourceForge.



The video was good, though perhaps a bit long. I think I will take a look at some of your other videos since you have taken the time to make them and I am in broadband land again.

I will try and make replies to you shorter.

Some points about the video.

How would you want to see foot/cart paths implemented? The biggest problem I see would be balance. Since units already move 2 hexes a turn, allowing a cheap means for them to do it all over your territory perhaps regardless of forest/hills seems like it would be a bit game breaking, or at least conceptually flawed in that units zip about the territory more than is realistic.

Perhaps if I can work it so that the footpath merely removes the penalty for road and jungle movement. I don't think that is a standard scheme though, so it might have to wait.

And of course I also feel that the road and foot path would still be too close together in my current tech tree. Sometime further down the line(long term really) when I expand ancient, classical, and medieval out to 4 techs wide it would have a little more room to breathe.

I do agree that the current system doesn't really represent how road systems evolve. Classical Civ Spaghetti doesn't quite cover it in that it represents only 1-2 road types over the ages and all are equal when placed on a tile.

So cheap no-maint roads is something I am interested in, as long as I can fit them in the tech tree, find low key art for them, and balance their bonuses to suit their purposes.

Since the view of the Civ map is a high aerial/low orbit view, I would like the standard tile roads to be mostly unnoticeable. Similar to the roads found on trading posts, but perhaps even less substantial. And of course the main corridors would be lined with adequately expensive-to-maintain rails, which would be visible as they currently are.

Highways are a big question for me. The difficulty of creating them so that they coexist with rails may be pretty high.

Another big problem is that the worker AI(I doubt the upcoming patch helps much with the dual route system) isn't really smart enough to handle these situations where most players would want them to take care of all the mundane road upgrades without ruining things. And if we have 2 classes of routes on the map at the same time, the workers will have an even harder time figuring it out.

It won't happen anytime soon either way, so we will just have to ponder it for awhile and keep an eye out for some unique systems that might address the issues.

OK, you sold me. The AI would ruin this. An your right, on a small map it would be crazy. On a huge map you might notice something. I will continue a second thought about roads below.

More about your video. The cities seem pretty small compared to most of my playthroughs and other reports. Do you normally go for a tradepost economy, or do you just automate the workers? I generally never build a single tradepost in my games, going for farms, mines, and mills, so my cities get pretty large post industrial.

How is the AI era's compared to your own in that video?

I have decided to delay uploading the final V7 fix to the hub until after the devs patch this week. After that I will make sure it still works, maybe change a few things here or there, and then post it.

You can of course still get it on SourceForge.



The video was good, though perhaps a bit long. I think I will take a look at some of your other videos since you have taken the time to make them and I am in broadband land again.

I will try and make replies to you shorter.

Some points about the video.

How would you want to see foot/cart paths implemented? The biggest problem I see would be balance. Since units already move 2 hexes a turn, allowing a cheap means for them to do it all over your territory perhaps regardless of forest/hills seems like it would be a bit game breaking, or at least conceptually flawed in that units zip about the territory more than is realistic.

Perhaps if I can work it so that the footpath merely removes the penalty for road and jungle movement. I don't think that is a standard scheme though, so it might have to wait.

And of course I also feel that the road and foot path would still be too close together in my current tech tree. Sometime further down the line(long term really) when I expand ancient, classical, and medieval out to 4 techs wide it would have a little more room to breathe.

I do agree that the current system doesn't really represent how road systems evolve. Classical Civ Spaghetti doesn't quite cover it in that it represents only 1-2 road types over the ages and all are equal when placed on a tile.

So cheap no-maint roads is something I am interested in, as long as I can fit them in the tech tree, find low key art for them, and balance their bonuses to suit their purposes.

Since the view of the Civ map is a high aerial/low orbit view, I would like the standard tile roads to be mostly unnoticeable. Similar to the roads found on trading posts, but perhaps even less substantial. And of course the main corridors would be lined with adequately expensive-to-maintain rails, which would be visible as they currently are.

Highways are a big question for me. The difficulty of creating them so that they coexist with rails may be pretty high.

Another big problem is that the worker AI(I doubt the upcoming patch helps much with the dual route system) isn't really smart enough to handle these situations where most players would want them to take care of all the mundane road upgrades without ruining things. And if we have 2 classes of routes on the map at the same time, the workers will have an even harder time figuring it out.

It won't happen anytime soon either way, so we will just have to ponder it for awhile and keep an eye out for some unique systems that might address the issues.

They are all puppet cities. So that is the AI working them. I do not annex or raze. I always puppet. Because the AI always goes gold, I always go trading post. Later in the game I was slowly annexing them and building the entire info-structure.

Maybe because I always spam trading posts is why I always have so much gold. To me they are the most powerful. They are only improvement that gives you science say a GS.

Sounds like an ok system, though I would need it to scale up to be relevant to techs that cost 200k beakers.

For sure scale. Whatever you come up with I will play. By no means bow to the masses of, I want this, and ruin your mod. You sold me on roads finally.

Glad you like it.



I have yet to have any endgame crashing with this mod, though I know it happens regularly enough to be super annoying in the vanilla game.

Do you guys feel like it is happening more or less than vanilla?

I guess no more. It is frustrating though to be a week into a game and loose it. I don't play much. I want to start a huge epic game with your mod. By time I finish it though you will be on version 12.

In the next patch they are capping happiness per city at each city's population, so I will be interested to see how this affects everyone's happiness numbers.

This could be interesting.

As far as the gold, I still need to increase the gold sinks and perhaps add some more in. Do you have a reference for about how much it was costing you to buy a standard unit?

This is the second part to the road thing I mentioned above. Do you ever scale improvement cost? They keep getting better; but do they keep getting more expensive? I think that right there could sink a lot of money, yet still feel like I'm booming.

If with refrigeration the farm gets a +2, but costs gets a +2, that will make a big difference. I think that is realistic as well. As time progressed stuff cost more.

Any specific cases of buildings or strings of buildings being overpowered? I balanced it so that buildings get progressively better over the ages, especially starting with the industrial revolution. I really want to get the feel of mass production and how we went from creating thousands of tons of things to billions of tons. Some things I would especially like to balance are the missiles and aircraft. They may be too cheap at the moment.

I don't think the buildings are a problem. It is still the AI not building up. I will see on my next play through as you updated some stuff. I was still using 7 with slaves.

I had to add resource requirements to a handful of units so that they would show up as strategic resources on your UI. At some point I will make it so that certain optional units have those requirements instead.



It does turn into a bit of a flood as the game progresses, especially with great engineers. Given the vast number of specialist slots I have added, I may look into cutting GP points by 1 per specialist. Or maybe more, but I will try 1 first and see how it works out.

Yes, I did not have endless golden ages though. I had no use for the great people though. They all because golden ages. Taking that number down might help. Also if we have more happiness, can you scale golden age happiness required by a tech? Say you tech globalization and golden ages take more to get now?

Once FiresForever releases the multiple social policy page mod, I plan to add 4-8 pages of social policies to include 10+ governments, 10+ religions, and dozens of flavor and specialization policy trees.

Once I have that added, I will try and balance policy costs and utopia victory conditions.

I have some of this outlined in the first post, so take a look at my current musings and let me know if you have any suggestions.



Did you mouse over the tiles to see what they actually were? I have seen certain graphical bugs where a tile looks like 1 terrain, but is actually another. Most common regarding mountains, but probably possible with others.



I think I looked at that before and set it off to the side for more important things. It is on my to do list now, so maybe I can take care of it in the next day or so. Thanks for the reminder.



You can thank Dr Balthar on the official forums for them. He is still working on a few more I think.

I so one, last night. Forget which wonder; was late game showed as black. International bio thing I think. Something like that.

Glad you enjoy it, hopefully I can keep quality updates coming well into the future.



How long is it taking you guys to complete roads and rails?

I am considering adding in a line of worker upgrades such as engineers and whatnot. Not sure when this might happen. How do you guys want it to scale? Engineer pumping out a railroad on a plains in 2 turns? 3?

Completion time is fine for me.

Would you say your CtD experiences with this mod are about the same as with vanilla, or different?

So much to do so little time with the mod.