Procylon's Call to Power Project

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Do you have any examples of how much gold you had, how much gold per turn, and how much you were paying for the average industrial building? I had increased these things quite significantly so I could use some more specific examples of where it is at.



Can you give me more info than this? I can't really get a picture of what is wrong with blanket statements like this.



Sounds like I will have to take a look and see if I can tie biology to combustion in some way.

link to video thread
This has a link to all the games I am talking about.

Here is a micro I did at part "Arabian nights (6.5)". That will show you ever city and what it is making. You can see all my in and out. Otherwise you can just spot check to see at different parts.

I do notice that specialized cities are very powerful. That is something I did in that game. I got a gold city going and never worried about money again. My capital was a production city; although I made more later. It was on warlord.

I hope that answers your questions.

edit:
I do want to note. I was only able to "boom" industrial. Once modern hit I had to go back to building; while I i was makeing close to 3k a turn none GA in the micro video.

 

[JSnider]

17 turns for a monument on marathon? It is usually 6-9 on standard speed which seems about right for turn 1. Can you give more specifics? Difficulty, gamespeed, map size, etc?
Have restarted the game on new map .. Huge,epic play. Also, diff is middle one can't remember what called at the moment (age has it's good points get to forget a lot and blame it on age these days). I'd say based on this go that the 1st go efffects had to do with the map (really poor area for start) cause now i'm producing things a lot faster ... Into Industrial and have about 1400+ gold a turn surplus and food is no problem and have 120 smillie faces. So unless get a bad start I'd have to say that hammers are about right, food and gold to generous. I hope to finish this go and start another, overall working fine until get so much money can purchase almost anything. Ai is staying about 1 tech age behind me at this point and each (as near as i can tell) has plenty of funds/happy faces also and supporting a very large military/navy force. Heck the brits had about 15 ships blockading a coast line (no idea why).



Industrial is 4 techs wide in this mod, which is 1 tech wider than standard. There really isn't much room to add more techs, but perhaps I can work the pipes a bit.

Pity ... really need to stretch out the early ages, possibly by breaking up what get for a tech, ie. if get 2-3 things in tech advance then break the items up amongst new techs? just an idea.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

17 turns for a monument on marathon? It is usually 6-9 on standard speed which seems about right for turn 1. Can you give more specifics? Difficulty, gamespeed, map size, etc?
Have restarted the game on new map .. Huge,epic play. Also, diff is middle one can't remember what called at the moment (age has it's good points get to forget a lot and blame it on age these days). I'd say based on this go that the 1st go efffects had to do with the map (really poor area for start) cause now i'm producing things a lot faster ... Into Industrial and have about 1400+ gold a turn surplus and food is no problem and have 120 smillie faces. So unless get a bad start I'd have to say that hammers are about right, food and gold to generous. I hope to finish this go and start another, overall working fine until get so much money can purchase almost anything. Ai is staying about 1 tech age behind me at this point and each (as near as i can tell) has plenty of funds/happy faces also and supporting a very large military/navy force. Heck the brits had about 15 ships blockading a coast line (no idea why).



Industrial is 4 techs wide in this mod, which is 1 tech wider than standard. There really isn't much room to add more techs, but perhaps I can work the pipes a bit.

Pity ... really need to stretch out the early ages, possibly by breaking up what get for a tech, ie. if get 2-3 things in tech advance then break the items up amongst new techs? just an idea.

I want to agree on this. I know this isn't your base; but the game I'm recording on warlord had a perfect storm start it seems. Other games I have started I have had bad starts that have crippled me. I don't think this is a bad thing though. Sometimes you get terrible start and have to work hard or lose. Sometimes you get a great start and everything is easy. Most the time it is in the middle. I feel like with your mod starting location is more important than with vanilla. I don't mind though.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Here is video:
Way to many slaves!

I know you said you will fix; but this shows how the other civs abuse them too.

As I say in video..... Don't attack me America!

 

[Decimatus]

Into Industrial and have about 1400+ gold a turn surplus and food is no problem and have 120 smillie faces. So unless get a bad start I'd have to say that hammers are about right, food and gold to generous. I hope to finish this go and start another, overall working fine until get so much money can purchase almost anything. Ai is staying about 1 tech age behind me at this point and each (as near as i can tell) has plenty of funds/happy faces also and supporting a very large military/navy force. Heck the brits had about 15 ships blockading a coast line (no idea why).

1400 gold a turn but how many cities? And how much does it cost you to rushbuy a standard unit or building?

If the AI is 1 age behind you then it seems like they still fall behind in population come Renaissance age. I am going to see if I can get them to grow bigger cities. This will likely make them tougher to beat. Might see if I can adjust this for V8.

Pity ... really need to stretch out the early ages, possibly by breaking up what get for a tech, ie. if get 2-3 things in tech advance then break the items up amongst new techs? just an idea.

Its on my to do list, but I am not sure when it will happen. Its just a matter of fitting techs into those eras in a believeable and fun manner, and of course putting units and buildings in them.

I want to agree on this. I know this isn't your base; but the game I'm recording on warlord had a perfect storm start it seems. Other games I have started I have had bad starts that have crippled me. I don't think this is a bad thing though. Sometimes you get terrible start and have to work hard or lose. Sometimes you get a great start and everything is easy. Most the time it is in the middle. I feel like with your mod starting location is more important than with vanilla. I don't mind though.

Thats really how it is in any game of this genre. Where you start determines your game. Many people put too much emphasis on it though. Even with a bad start you should be able to make a comeback. In Call to Power there were many times when I would start in what I call an "Endless Swamp". Where you have swamps for days. A dozen, maybe even a few dozen tiles wide.

I always kind of chuckled when I ended up in an Endless Swamp for my start location, but it was fun to press on, because eventually you would find a good mountain range or a vast prairie and it was so beautiful. And of course in CtP, you could eventually teraform your swamp into whatever land you needed it to be. And those Aligators in the swamp were good trade goods anyway.

Anyway, even if you have a bad start, and sometimes especially if you have a bad start, the situation is always salvageable and in most cases the extra challenge is worth it if only for the fun of winning in spite of it.

At least for me anyway.

There is no such thing as an endless swamp in Civ 5, but I hope to find a map script that adds a diversity slider to the map generator, so that you can have a complete diverse landscape(civ 5), or at least the option to have games where endless swamps/deserts/prairies exist.

Here is video:
Way to many slaves!

I know you said you will fix; but this shows how the other civs abuse them too.

As I say in video..... Don't attack me America!

I want to watch your videos but dialup doesn't like videos.

Slaves will be removed for the final V7 release, but maybe they will come back at a later date.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

ok, on a small "earth" map every square in Africa top bulb has a slave on on. I will say about 60 slaves! Yeah I knew you were removing them; but it was kinda a OMG moment.

This game I got sandwiched and am pulling ahead now. I am going for science, so here is hoping. Yes you can still get era's ahead of the AI. IUS could kill me if America ever decides it doesn't like me; 60 slaves aside. An having level 12 destroyer is fun. Built one ship, leveled it all game.

Upgrading to rocket artillery still has set up bug? Was that supposed to be fixed in 7? or just known?

 

[Decimatus]

ok, on a small "earth" map every square in Africa top bulb has a slave on on. I will say about 60 slaves! Yeah I knew you were removing them; but it was kinda a OMG moment.

This game I got sandwiched and am pulling ahead now. I am going for science, so here is hoping. Yes you can still get era's ahead of the AI. IUS could kill me if America ever decides it doesn't like me; 60 slaves aside. An having level 12 destroyer is fun. Built one ship, leveled it all game.

Upgrading to rocket artillery still has set up bug? Was that supposed to be fixed in 7? or just known?

Pretty sure the reason players get ahead of the AI in eras is the lower AI population growth. I have to look into some variables that the AI looks at to determine how big to grow it's cities, so hopefully I can raise those levels a bit.

I think I noticed the rocket artillery setup in one of my test games. I wil look into this and see if I can remove it, maybe V7, but at least by V8.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

V7 Hollywood wonder shows the pentagon picture.

Upgrading to combat controller was only 215 gold. Seems cheap when rocket artillery was 1.5k or something close.

EDIT:
CTD while buying, applying slaves to hurry production in all cities. Kinda seems like explotive to pay 180 gold to shave 1 turn of a production of something. Make slaves change with the times? (When you put them back in). I log everything I think. If you tell me were to look I will send the log files. Saving everything before I replay.

EDIT 2:
C2D in same spot. Late game. I try and click on a city to buy a slave. Will try doing different things; WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!! I was going to win science after being badgered all game long!!!

 

[JSnider]

1400 gold a turn but how many cities? .. At that time about 43/44 cities

And how much does it cost you to rushbuy a standard unit or building? .. To buy a rifleman cost ~760, a fishing boat ~ 150, barracks hmm about 400. If want I can ck the game and get all the numbers at this point.
Having crash issues at this point .. nothing to do with the mod, more graphics as game starts to pan to another location and the map freezes in transit. Had this with the regular game also .. so time to tune the diplay and see if can get around it.

If the AI is 1 age behind you then it seems like they still fall behind in population come Renaissance age. .. Agree as it appears were keeping up founding cities and such for the 1st couple eras and then stopped. Have seen some settlers moving around but they don't seem to use them to found a city in the later stages of the game .. and there is plenty of open terrain and islands around. Can't prove it but in the 2 games it is almost like they go to war and stop founding new cities or cut back dramatically.

I am going to see if I can get them to grow bigger cities. This will likely make them tougher to beat. Might see if I can adjust this for V8. .. Sounds like a good idea to me at this point, whereas I would settle sub-optimal locations for potential strategic value, the AI seems to have other guiding principles.

Oh and have to say they buy a lot of slaves as do the city-states .. me I avoid these.

 

[Decimatus]

V7 Hollywood wonder shows the pentagon picture.

Upgrading to combat controller was only 215 gold. Seems cheap when rocket artillery was 1.5k or something close.

Wonders that do not have a splash image will often show the last image that was displayed. So this is most likely what you saw.

EDIT:
CTD while buying, applying slaves to hurry production in all cities. Kinda seems like explotive to pay 180 gold to shave 1 turn of a production of something. Make slaves change with the times? (When you put them back in). I log everything I think. If you tell me were to look I will send the log files. Saving everything before I replay.

EDIT 2:
C2D in same spot. Late game. I try and click on a city to buy a slave. Will try doing different things; WWWAAAAHHHHH!!!! I was going to win science after being badgered all game long!!!

Can you tell me how much production a slave is adding renaissance-modern? I know it scales, but I was only able to test it up to classical.

The CTD's when you hit the buy button are probably tied to the bug causing inability to change production. When I try and implement them in the future I will have to fix this core issue before I even consider it. I may download a few other mods that use the unit rush mechanic to compare and see what is going wrong.

To buy a rifleman cost ~760, a fishing boat ~ 150, barracks hmm about 400. If want I can ck the game and get all the numbers at this point.
Having crash issues at this point .. nothing to do with the mod, more graphics as game starts to pan to another location and the map freezes in transit. Had this with the regular game also .. so time to tune the diplay and see if can get around it.

For 43 cities, being able to rush 2 rifleman a turn sounds ok. My main concern with that would be whether the AI is also making use of the large gold supplies to rush units. I think they are, but perhaps not in the most efficient manner.

Another concern I have is the number of missiles and aircraft you can rush a turn. It is possible to rush so many missiles in a turn that you win with them alone, so that has to be looked at. Might possibly increase their rush multiplier and decrease their overall range a bit to make them more of a tactical weapon instead of a strategic army destroying factor.

Also, I plan to implement aircraft and missile stack limits as soon as I get around to investigating it.

Agree as it appears were keeping up founding cities and such for the 1st couple eras and then stopped. Have seen some settlers moving around but they don't seem to use them to found a city in the later stages of the game .. and there is plenty of open terrain and islands around. Can't prove it but in the 2 games it is almost like they go to war and stop founding new cities or cut back dramatically.

Well I have read in the upcoming patch notes that the devs are going to make it so that the AI go after the islands and unpopulated continents more. That should help a bit.

Sounds like a good idea to me at this point, whereas I would settle sub-optimal locations for potential strategic value, the AI seems to have other guiding principles.

I would like to greatly increase AI city sizes while increasing the minimum city distance to 3 to cut down on city sprawl. I don't want to hamstring the AI though, so I will see if I can fix their city sizes first and then fix the sprawl at a later date.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

I avoided changing production, buying things, etc. Hitting end turn CTD. I can not progress on that game.

gotcha on the image for the wonder. that was in fact last wonder I built.

At my point in game I could buy a slave for 180 gold. That would take 1 turn of production in my large city. It was over 200 production; I did not check actual hammer count. As I can't progress game (and started another) I am un able to test that until a later game.

As slaves are leaving your mod for now anyway; I would not worry about it yet other than notes for future addition back in.

FYI - Next game I seem to have sling shotted into a great lead. Horse rush to puppet neighbors is still very powerful.

 

[Buddha2723]

If the AI is 1 age behind you then it seems like they still fall behind in population come Renaissance age. I am going to see if I can get them to grow bigger cities. This will likely make them tougher to beat. Might see if I can adjust this for V8.

I believe the AI always focuses on great people. Unless you know a way to change this, the only way to force them to grow is to cut down on specialists before the industrial age, so they have to work the land. There is probably some value you can double or triple, to make the AI prioritize food instead of GP points, or production, that it probably overdoes now.

NEW SCENARIO! Look for it on the hub, under "Buddha2723's World War II Scenario" (here is the description, it uses an altered map from the USvsWorld scenario)
Play as US, UK commonwealth, France, Russia, or China on the allied side, or play as one of the three major axis powers of Germany, Japan, and Italy. This map is specially made to be played with Procylon's Call to Power Project, with it's many great additions, including the all important machine gunner. Version 7 of the project will be released soon, get it, and play a much deeper civ game. Enjoy, everyone!

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

I believe the AI always focuses on great people. Unless you know a way to change this, the only way to force them to grow is to cut down on specialists before the industrial age, so they have to work the land. There is probably some value you can double or triple, to make the AI prioritize food instead of GP points, or production, that it probably overdoes now.

NEW SCENARIO! Look for it on the hub, under "Buddha2723's World War II Scenario" (here is the description, it uses an altered map from the USvsWorld scenario)
Play as US, UK commonwealth, France, Russia, or China on the allied side, or play as one of the three major axis powers of Germany, Japan, and Italy. This map is specially made to be played with Procylon's Call to Power Project, with it's many great additions, including the all important machine gunner. Version 7 of the project will be released soon, get it, and play a much deeper civ game. Enjoy, everyone!

Drinking coffee at work. Mmm.

I just had a thought. I see my puppets are growing nicely; can you mod some puppet thoughts to the computer AI? Is that DLL Moding? If it is maybe it is a thought.

I think you have a good point here. This leads me to these questions:

Can the AI specialize cities?
Can you see if they are building the +% buildings?
Maybe that is all you need to do is give those a high priority.
Even if you specialize with the +% buildings your cities grow with very few tiles worked?

Just random coffee break thoughts. Back to work. 5 days off (Look at WA state and snow + Thanks & Giving Holiday) I only had 2k e-mails this morning.

 

[JSnider]

Another concern I have is the number of missiles and aircraft you can rush a turn. It is possible to rush so many missiles in a turn that you win with them alone, so that has to be looked at. Might possibly increase their rush multiplier and decrease their overall range a bit to make them more of a tactical weapon instead of a strategic army destroying factor ..

Is it possible to make certain units unbuyable or something. Can always have them only produced by a building to get around this (limits number .. building requires say 10-15 iron so can't build a lot of them also). Just random thoughts.

 

[Data662]

How do I make the files become xml files?
nvm you do save as and then type .xml at the end.

 

[Buddha2723]

They finally got me, darn Askia and his special knights. Balance was good, my start was just too poor, but I did take a capital before I fell. Still, 450 turns on marathon, king setting ain't bad. It seems if you are going to play a harder difficulty, starting further back increases your difficulty(I started ancient, whoops).

I've been thinking of a few buildings and units to add for techs with only a wonder in them. Here's what I've come up with.

Tech/Type/Name/Description
Polytheism/Unit/Fanatic/8 STR, 2 moves, - 50% vs land units(good to take cities)
Meditation/Building/Prayer Garden/+1 culture, +1 happiness
Monotheism/Unit/Temple Guard/10 STR, 1 move, +25% vs mounted(extra expensive, early pikemen)
Poetry/Unit/Warrior Monk/ 9 STR, 3 moves, - 50% vs mounted
Literature/building/Grammar School/+5 Science
Algebra/building/Alchemist's Lab/+10 science
Calculus/building/Private College/+15 science
Marxism/building/Communal farms/+2 production per farm
Vaccines/building/Research Hospital/+30 science

I'll have to really think for the techs in modern and beyond. I realize many of these are a stretch, but sometimes bad ideas can lead to good ones. Hope some of mine make the cut.

 

[Yanikin_Tinkard]

Just won a culture win on Prince. That mean I have to up the difficulty now? I should finish my warlord game though.

This was a run away. I explain a few things in my video of the last turn. It also shows the mods used and settings used for game at beginning of video. It is short so don't worry.

My win


edit: Youtube ate my sound. I will work on it in morning. I need sleep.
Edit2: Morning. here is video with my sound. I explain the stuff at the end.

 

[JSnider]

Well looks like gotta start a new game as can't get past lookup when the game pans from one location to another for this one (i'll still try backing up a few saves to see if can get around). Lowered the graphics and still nada .. wonder if the saves are getting corrupted as they get bigger. have had with other mods and plain vanilla, so either rig or basic game engine.

 

[lawyergamer]

I'm having a lot of fun with this mod, but I'm experiencing some unbearable slowdown. I'm playing on a large map, pangaea, standard time, on prince. By turn 150, it's taking about 20-30 seconds between turns. Usually I don't experience this in the vanilla game at all (maybe endgame on huge map).

Anyone have any suggestions about what to change? Is it too many civilizations? Is it the constant warring from being on a pangaea map (along with the giant AI armies from the increased production and gold in the mod)? Or is it something specific to the mod like the AI creating too many slaves?

Any suggestions are appreciated since I'd really like to play with this mod but don't have the time to wait around so much!

 

[TanisX]

JSnider: Loading problems are caused by having manual ID assgined in the two units???. xml files. I think there is a link to fixed xml files a few pages back.


lawyergamer: I think the slowdown is caused by too many workers made by the AI.