Promotions: The Final Solution...

[exhile]

I like the idea about only getting promotions from say if you win in a forest. You are eligable to get Woodsman I

I support this as well as hill defense and attacking across a river.

 

[Ramesses]

I would prefer if instead of promotions, units had stats which could simply be upgraded, preferably by participating in the appropriate battles (e.g. hill defense -> Guerrilla EXP). The starting stats for each unit depend on the type of unit it is. Also, all units can improve in any stat.

Here would be all of the stats available to units (not sorted in any meaningful order):

Strength: General attack strength (gains EXP in any battle)
City Raiding: Bonus when attacking cities (gains EXP when attacking cities)*
City Garrison: Bonus when defending cities (gains EXP when defending cities)*
Anti-Armor: Bonus vs. Armored Units (gains EXP against Armored Units)
Anti-Air: Chance of intercepting aircraft (gains EXP after each aircraft attack, more from a successful interception)
Shock: Bonus vs. Melee Units
Pinch: Bonus vs. Gunpowder Units (The first level, which Grenadiers start with, gives a bonus against Riflemen only, all further levels are effective against all Gunpowder units)
First Strikes: The minimum number of first strikes this unit gets (gains EXP against units with first strikes)**
First Strike Chances: The number of extra first strikes that may be allotted to the unit (gains EXP against units with first strikes)**
Barrage: Bonus to collateral damage (gains EXP when collateral damage is performed)
Drill: Resistance to collateral damage (gains EXP when hit with collateral damage)
Amphibious: Reduction in combat penalty from attacking across rivers or from coasts (gains EXP when attacking across rivers or from coasts)
Charge: Bonus vs. Siege Units
Blitz: Number of attacks allowed in a single turn (gains EXP for each battle it takes less than 10 damage).
Cover: Bonus vs. Archery Units
Flanking

Bonuses (These are not stats, they act as Promotions, except are awarded automatically.)
Commando: No movement penalty for moving on enemy roads (earned by spending 30(?) straight turns in enemy territory)
Leadership: Double EXP earned in all stats (Attach Great General)

*If you level up in either City Raiding or City Garrison, the other is locked out.
**Some unit types cannot use First Strikes (like Melee units). If such a unit is defending, and it has equal or fewer first strikes than the attacker, it will nullify as many first strikes as it can (as what happens in CivIV now). However, if it has more first strikes than the attacker, they will go unused. In other words, for Melee/Mounted/Recon/Air units, the First Strike stats are purely defensive.

This is getting long. I'll pick it up later.

 

[Camikaze]

That could work, although it would be very fiddly, and would take a long time for each unit. One of the advantages of the current system is that it is easy to use. You just press one thing. What you suggested could get quite messy and confusing, and very time consuming, although it does seem to be a slightly better system.

 

[Ramesses]

That could work, although it would be very fiddly, and would take a long time for each unit. One of the advantages of the current system is that it is easy to use. You just press one thing. What you suggested could get quite messy and confusing, and very time consuming, although it does seem to be a slightly better system.

Well, the way I expect it to be implemented is that units will just upgrade in response to the situations they've been in. The player won't really have control over it, rather the unit automatically adapts to the battles he encounters.

 

[Gamemaster77]

Could someone please explain to me what first strike is in the first place?

 

[Ramesses]

Could someone please explain to me what first strike is in the first place?

In a nutshell, first strikes are the attacks made by one of the units before regular combat begins. Only one unit can have first strikes in any given battle - the number of first strikes given to each unit are compared, and the difference goes to the unit with more of them (no unit gets first strikes in case of a tie). First strikes have the same chance to hit as attacks in regular rounds of combat, but the first striker is immune to damage.

EDIT: Or, even more simply, first strikes are the number of combat rounds that you are immune to damage.

 

[exhile]

I'd like to see promotions be included in the military advisor screen so that I can rank all units by experience level order. That way, I can find and locate my most strongest units or weakest units and give them orders or not.

 

[Camikaze]

They are, aren't they? If you expand out the list of unit types to see individual units, you can see their promotions.

 

[exhile]

They are, aren't they? If you expand out the list of unit types to see individual units, you can see their promotions.

Yes, but I'd like them to be arranged in a strength level order from descending to ascending. For example, list all units from strength 7 onto 1 or 1 onto 7 while showing detailed info on promotions and location on a map. It would be similar to the city screen info.

 

[Argetnyx]

I'm still a supporter of training, and promotions that fit the victory.

 

[Camikaze]

Is that really much different to promotions as they currently are? I mean, there would still be barracks that provide training towards a particular unit improvement. The only difference would be that it would be predetermined rather than determined after the unit is built. However, this could be changed to being the same without compromising any factors involved, just for ease.

 

[Argetnyx]

Is that really much different to promotions as they currently are? I mean, there would still be barracks that provide training towards a particular unit improvement. The only difference would be that it would be predetermined rather than determined after the unit is built. However, this could be changed to being the same without compromising any factors involved, just for ease.

Well, not the same. I'm talking about in field promotions too, so you can't beat a horseman and get a bonus against catapults.

 

[Camikaze]

Well, not the same. I'm talking about in field promotions too, so you can't beat a horseman and get a bonus against catapults.

As a general comment, I think a general consensus has been reached that promotions from experience should be determined by what type of combat that experience came from. What else about your system makes it different from the current one, besides that idea?

 

[Argetnyx]

What else about your system makes it different from the current one, besides that idea?

You have to specify what skill (promotion is a bad term in this instance) the unit will get before you build it. Also, you can 'retrain' a unit for another skill, you will not be able to do this very often, and it will take time (maybe half of its initial build time).

 

[Big Rob]

in the game it's experience points and promotions, but if it were real life it would be a regimental history, a standard to live up to , and every time new people joined, they would be trying to prove that they belonged, and the veterans would be trying to prove to the rookies that the veterans weren't all talk, or has beens. It's a lot like a storied sports franchise. Also, there would be a collective wisdom residing in the commissioned and non-commisioned officers. Appeals can always be made to their sense of duty, honor and country at critical moments in terms of that regimental history.

Times change, people change, opposition changes, but in many ways, the ny yankees, real madrid, the allblacks, the university of notre dame, the us 82nd airborne, the 101st airborne and the 2nd armored are what they are.

HOO-AHH !!!

Unit Pride, Baby

 

[TheVancouverMan]

I believe that modern motorized units should require a factory, and adding shipyards to the game, making them needed to build ships.

 

[Argetnyx]

in the game it's experience points and promotions, but if it were real life it would be a regimental history, a standard to live up to , and every time new people joined, they would be trying to prove that they belonged, and the veterans would be trying to prove to the rookies that the veterans weren't all talk, or has beens. It's a lot like a storied sports franchise. Also, there would be a collective wisdom residing in the commissioned and non-commisioned officers. Appeals can always be made to their sense of duty, honor and country at critical moments in terms of that regimental history.

Good idea. But that's already represented in the game.

 

[Hail]

I'm still a supporter of training, and promotions that fit the victory.

agree on the first. disagree about the second: promotions are the unit management layer of military part of civ. i believe such layer does not belong in civ.

 

[Argetnyx]

agree on the first. disagree about the second: promotions are the unit management layer of military part of civ. i believe such layer does not belong in civ.

Maybe don't call it 'promotions', but 'skills' instead.

 

[Camikaze]

You have to specify what skill (promotion is a bad term in this instance) the unit will get before you build it. Also, you can 'retrain' a unit for another skill, you will not be able to do this very often, and it will take time (maybe half of its initial build time).

So it is purely a matter of predetermination of a unit's skill set? I guess that would be a good starting point for fixing promotions, but I get the feeling something extra is needed.