Proposal for a new Japanese goal

[Rhye]

How would you see a replacement of

"Never lose a city before 1850 AD"

with

"First to enter modern era".

Would it be more difficult?

 

[Bob III]

Hmmm, that might be good.

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

Makes sense and to win as Japan all you have to do is turtle, this might force Japan to participate in more wars, which makes more historical sense.

 

[KnightoftheStar]

Except as is with Japan the wars you have to participate in are during Japan's earlier period of militarism, they didn't start invading other places regularly until after Admiral Perry ended their period of isolationism in 1850.

 

[blizzrd]

How would you see a replacement of

"Never lose a city before 1850 AD"

with

"First to enter modern era".

Would it be more difficult?

The problem I see with the Japanese UHV conditions are that the 2nd and 3rd are simply dependent on the first one. To become first in score, you have to have either a vastly superior number of cities compared to China/Mongolia or you have to have a massive tech lead and perhaps a more modest empire. Either of these mean that there is no way at any later stage that you should either let another civ's culture reach the Japanese homeland or lose a city.

I would support changes to both the 2nd and 3rd UHV conditions actually. This proposed change to the 3rd condition would certainly be harder than the current one, but by no means the hardest going around. It would however probably be impossible to achieve on Emperor difficulty due to the (way too harsh) tech cost penalties.

I think there are some serious issues with the 2nd Japanese UHV conditon also though. I would prefer something along the lines of "Allow no European embassies in cities on the Japanes mainland before 1850". This would force the human player to declare war on any Euros who try to establish an embassy in Japan and I think would make for a much more interesting situation than the current 2nd UHV condition does.

EDIT: Thinking further about my suggestion for the 2nd UHV, perhaps this should be added to the current requirement for no foreign culture for a combined UHV condition.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Allow no European embassies in cities on the Japanes mainland before 1850". This would force the human player to declare war on any Euros who try to establish an embassy in Japan

To ensure that victory, you'll need to:

1)Eliminate every European before 1850.

or

2)Live in a state of perpetual isolation, hoping that any contact with Euros will be minimal due to contact decay.

or

3)Live in a AW with Europe.

Doesn't strike me as particulary elegant.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

First to enter modern era is not hard at all as long as you get radio (which I routinely get by the mid 1700's).

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

What about something involving Japanese militarism or expansionism with an end date of 1940 or 1950? A territorial goal.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Good goal reflecting militarism: vassalize 2 of the following by 1940: Russia, Mongolia, China, Khmer.

 

[blizzrd]

What about control SE asia north of Australia, coastal China and Manchuria by 1940? Say 1 city in Korea, 1 in Manchuria, 3 in China and 3 in SE Asia?

Historically accurate - yes?

 

[kbk]

I've always thought Japan was an easy one.

Never lose a city and no foreign culture on Honshu do tend to go together. No foreign culture though is so ridiculously easy. You basically have to just let another civ build a city on your island to lose this one.

 

[SadoMacho]

How about having a certant number of ships ready by 1950.
Like:
Have 2 battleships, 4 destroyers, 2 carriers and 4 submarines by 1950

Japan was known for its strong fleet during the first have of he 1900's. This way, they need to get some oil (war or trade, so opening up in time), build a war fleet, and be advanced enough to build the units.

 

[Úmarth]

That goal is too easy, but I'd rather see something that forced you to switch from turtling to expansion in the modern era.

Be the first to use a nuke would be... ironic, but perhaps a little lacking in taste.

 

[SadoMacho]

Have you tried it? Maybe more ships would be better.

 

[Úmarth]

I was referring to the current UHV goal "Never lose a city before 1850 AD", my bad.

 

[Edungeon]

I like the "build a fleet" and the nuke one I vote for one of this

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

I think blizzrd's territory goal is the best one so far. It reflects the period of rapid expansion which never happens with Japan in the game and really should.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I think blizzrd's territory goal is the best one so far. It reflects the period of rapid expansion which never happens with Japan in the game and really should.

I agree. AI Japan already tries to do so already (Kisi, Seoul, 3 tiny cities in Philippines, and occasionally captures Hangzhou. If it will just be more aggressive when it does declare war on China and Khmer...

Pearl Harbor should be included (nobody ever founds a city there).

 

[Metal Alloy Man]

Pearl Harbor should be included (nobody ever founds a city there).

Interesting idea but I'd rather have 3 cities in Australia or Oceania instead.

How about control or vassalize Korea(1 city), Coastal China(all coastal cities in China),Manchuria(2 cities),Khmer,Phillipines(2 cities),Australia and Oceania(3 cities) and Pearl Harbour by 1950. This shouldn't be too hard because you have plenty of time to do it. I do something similar to it all the time.

 

[SadoMacho]

I have noticed a more agressive Japan since the new patch. Could be that it's because I added Hirohito (still working on the extra leaders modcomp, but I have some problems). Anyway, I se a Japan colonizing more and fighting more.