Proposal: Ministry of Finance and Labor

[Octavian X]

This is just a little idea that's been rattling in the back of my head for some time.

It seems to me that the most problematic game-related issues with this game are those that involve the budget and workers. As evidence, I point to past systems created to deal with this matters.

First, the workers - In DG2, as some may remember, there was great debate, and eventually, and elaborate system of worker control created under the jurisdiction of the President, a system that caused more than one conflict, if memory serves.

Second, the budget. I think we can almost all agree that giving the Senate this power was more or less a failure. Inactive Senators, unclear and late instructions, and general hassle plague this system.

Donavon Zoi, I think, is getting my drift here. The idea for this ministry is taken from the 1BC Democracy Game (for those of you who don't know, our beloved DZ is President of their game. Congrats. ). It puts these two game aspects under one office, like the synchronization of the Trade and Technology Ministry.

As I see it, this Ministry would be almost an extension of the Internal Ministry and the Governor's Offices. The Minister of Finance and Labor would fiddle with all the slider settings, and process requests for worker actions, as well as budget requests from all the other Ministries.

Any thoughts?

 

[Peri]

Looks like a very good solution to a serious problem.

 

[GenMarshall]

Sounds like a good Idea .

 

[Strider]

It sounds like a good idea to me!

 

[Sarevok]

Great Idea!

 

[ravensfire]

Love the idea!

I'm one of the people who started the "Give the Senate something to do!" stuff - and I think that idea has failed.

Wonderful idea Octavian, wonderful!

-- Ravensfire

 

[Sarevok]

Finance and labor would also likely include trade and such domestic Ideas. perhaps it can become its own independent department? or perhaps make them both independent as to distribute the work and power. Trade and technology will be an insane job not too long from now.

 

[tao]

We definitely need to pay more attention to our workforce.

In the Presidency candidacy thread, I asked a question and made a proposal -- regrettably without answers. But this may be a much better place for my argument. Mutatis mutandur it goes as follows:

IMHO we cannot have even nearly "complete" polls on how to manage our growing number of workers in detail. Alternatives I personally see are:

1. The department of labor oversees all worker actions in detail (as decided in public polls/discussions).
2. The department of labor is responsible for the global allocation of workers to the provinces and the new cities not yet part of a province (as decided in public polls/discussions).
3. The department of labor may request workers from the provinces for tasks of national importance, e.g. expansion beyond existing provinces, build access roads to outlying regions, supporting the advance of our military, building colonies.
4. The individual province governors manage -- in close cooperation with the mayors and the government -- the workers in their province.
   [/list=1] Do I have to tell you that I am in favor of 2, 3, and 4 and against 1?

 

[Sarevok]

it sounds like a good idea and it should be implemented.

 

[Shalashaska]

Yes that sounds cool. Control all the worker actions and money allocation following what the people want. If this was the way and they controlled the taxs and there was a science person to control the science and a domestic (or what ever) to control the luxaurys, who would be in charge of sliders. And i also think the senate should do something as long as they do.

 

[Rik Meleet]

I'd like to go further than this.
* Get rid of the Senate. With this new ministry it will loose it's function.
* Include pop-rushing in this ministry (I haven't been able to find if it is under the jurisdiction of another department, if it is; leave it there).
* Make this minister "Vice President". That'll remove some outside-game reorganising. The VP already is chairperson of the Senate. And it removes the, in my eyes, legally-debatable appointing of such a high-ranking official.

 

[Shalashaska]

Make this minister "Vice President". That'll remove some outside-game reorganising. The VP already is chairperson of the Senate. And it removes the, in my eyes, legally-debatable appointing of such a high-ranking official.

But then if someone wanted to be the finace minister they would have the task of running for president but coming second best. pretty hard unless there are only two people running

 

[DaveShack]

Originally posted by Shalashaska


But then if someone wanted to be the finace minister they would have the task of running for president but coming second best. pretty hard unless there are only two people running

No, we're not using the 2nd place candidates as deputies, they are appointed, including the VP. If we called this office VP and gave it the responsibilities being proposed here, that would ensure that everyone in the CoC is elected, which was the original intention of limiting it to the leaders and not the deputies.

The only concern I would have then is that when the President is unavailable, the VP would be buried in work doing both jobs.

 

[DaveShack]

Originally posted by Rik Meleet
I'd like to go further than this.
* Include pop-rushing in this ministry (I haven't been able to find if it is under the jurisdiction of another department, if it is; leave it there).

I think we came to the conclusion that pop rushing is a governor function, or at least there were calls to make it one of the governor's duties.

 

[DaveShack]

This is a great proposal.

Focusing for the moment on the Labor aspect...

Originally posted by tao

1. The department of labor oversees all worker actions in detail (as decided in public polls/discussions).
2. The department of labor is responsible for the global allocation of workers to the provinces and the new cities not yet part of a province (as decided in public polls/discussions).
3. The department of labor may request workers from the provinces for tasks of national importance, e.g. expansion beyond existing provinces, build access roads to outlying regions, supporting the advance of our military, building colonies.
4. The individual province governors manage -- in close cooperation with the mayors and the government -- the workers in their province.
   [/list=1]

1. 
   
   I see these not necessarily as alternatives, but as kernels to be used as steps in the complete process. Consider this work flow:
   
   Citizens->Mayors->Governors->Labor Dept->TcIT
   
   Requests may come from anyone, with governors taking priority, then mayors, then citizens (as shown by the last one in the chain having the power to choose among competing requests from earlier in the chain). The Minister of Labor takes all of the requests, applies a national policy which was derived from discussions and polls, and formulates an efficient way to proceed for the current set of turns.
   
   The decision making authority of what to do would remain with the governors, mayors, and people. The new ministry is responsible for how to obtain the goals. Conflicting and inefficient instructions would be avoided by putting one person in charge of coming up with a detailed plan, so the president / DP would not need to figure it out on the fly, in-game, and suffer the endless questions from governors and mayors about "why did you do that project and not mine?"

 

[tao]

Originally posted by DaveShack
The decision making authority of what to do would remain with the governors, mayors, and people. The new ministry is responsible for how to obtain the goals. Conflicting and inefficient instructions would be avoided by putting one person in charge of coming up with a detailed plan, so the president / DP would not need to figure it out on the fly, in-game, and suffer the endless questions from governors and mayors about "why did you do that project and not mine?"

Let me disagree (or not?). IMHO the what is crucially linked with the when. The how in most cases is a no-brainer. If a Mayor needs e.g. an additional irrigated tile for his city to not run into starvation, the irrigation is need on time. IMHO the Mayors and their Governor are best-suited to do the detailed planning once the workers are allocated to them by the new ministry. Usually there are more tasks than workers and the province should have the right to set priorities . and provide a detailed plan as turnchat instructions

 

[Octavian X]

We've tried the worker-allocation system before. If failed, utterly, when too many demands were place for the same number of workers, and because no one could agree on how best to allocate the work force.

This new ministry, I think, should have direct control over all aspects of the worker force. As I see it, the workers of this game are a valuable commodity. Everyone wants the workers to do something for them - The Interior Ministry might want a massive irrigation project. A governor might want his province to be developed further. The Trade Ministry may even want a long new road to a neighbor or luxury. There simply are too many aspects that these workers represent to be divided. We then get into the issue of how to allocate the workers, which is a mess within itself.

If a central Minister is in direct command of these workers, he can best coordinate all their actions. I also hope this would get rid of the bickering that almost always follows our workers, no matter where they go.

 

[Civanator]

Hmm... Doesn't the Internal Affairs manage the finances and workers? Or does the IA manage overall worker output?

Also by giving the Ministry control of all the wrokers, governors will still ask the Ministry Leader to allocate workers to his/her province for roads, mines, etc.

I am for the L&F, but, isn't it a governor's job, originally, to manage workers on their cities? This is a good idea to have a L&F Ministry, but it also produces some flaws, which can or cannot be fixed.

It is a good idea, but it needs to be refined .

 

[Sarevok]

I think this general department will lower the workload of the domestic departments, and can make the game alot more effective.

 

[zorven]

I don't think I agree with this entirely. Currently the sliders rest with the Senate. I agree that through 2 terms it has not been a very successful experiment. I would support giving this function to a Leader. However, instead of creating a new Leader, I say give this to the President. Then we don't have to worry anymore about instructions that keep the Pres from adjusting the sliders for happyness or optimizing gold in regards to research. And this would not be a burden for the President given the current list of duties for this office.

Worker currently reside under the control of the President. This proposal takes that function away and gives it to another Leader. Why? How has this not been working? How will the new Leader perform any better? I say leave it as is.