[GS] Proposal to fix Diplo Victory

[arthur486]

At this point it is clear that diplomatic victory is broken. For me, it's not that it takes too many turns to achieve, but is mostly the fact that the pre-modern part of the game does not have a deciding influence on its outcome. Sure, science victories are also lengthy, but in order to be quick, you have to plan around them from turn 1. I don't feel this is happening here to the same extent.

Also, at this point Firaxis are not going to make sweeping changes to the game, so here's my 2 cents on what CAN be changed to make diplo victory much more palatable:

• Give the first civilization who meets everybody 1 victory point. Not only is this deserved, but I think it encourages you to explore the map - you know, actively do something towards victory.
• Start the voting for diplo victory together with the world congress in the medieval era.
• I think more wonders could have 1 diplo victory point attached. Maybe select a wonder from each game era, so that you promote a race towards them? (again, it gives you something to plan towards)
• Starting wars, occupying cities and especially capitals, taking opponents off the map should really really dent your diplomatic favour, in order to discourage domination-based "diplomatic" victories.

 

[Jigglewiggle]

I think both the length of the game and that nothing early game really matters like you say are both problematic. I suppose with the patch founding a religion so one can build the Mahabodi Temple is an early game requirement? Seems kind of disjointed from the actual victory itself, though to now require pushing for a religion, which Religious (obviously) and often Cultural victories already do.
I love the suggestion of being the first to meet everyone yielding a diplo point for the reasons you give.
I also think Dilplo victory could benefit from implementing the alliance system, too? Thereby kind of requiring the player to play nice to some degree in order to win. One point per level three alliance would be a bit much (unless they balanced it by requiring more points to win!), but maybe give a point after three level three alliances or so? Encouraging interactions with other civs seems to fit thematically too. Maybe give points for liberating capitals and, as suggested, lose points from taking capitals, etc. This would also serve to further accent the Casus Belli system in a meaningful way.

Diplomatic victory seems like it has so much great potential! But it's just executed in a way that isn't very fun. Having to just click next turn next turn next turn without being able to do anything to hasten the victory a la with science or culture using the lasers or rock bands is lame. Nothing can make the world congress come quicker and before the last vote civs don't even seem willing to trade their favor in my experience anyway. So it's just making sure I keep my city states and keep hitting those future civics and techs. Not particularly thrilling.

A big overhaul could be really cool. Require more points but give them more liberally. Add points to a few more wonders (one per era either in civics or tech is a cool suggestion), give them from reaching a level three alliance with a civ for the first time (even encouraging building alliances with others after reaching level three and also encouraging actually giving a real damn about the AI's agendas! It fits the theme perfectly!), give them for liberating capitals, for reducing your carbon footprint to zero to a certain massive degree, and have the world congress meet a bit more frequently in the late game a la Civ V. I get they don't want to just reharsh Civ V and that's okay. But if some of those systems work AND fit thematically, then let's throw em back in!

I'm kind of rambling, but I really want to like Diplomatic Victory. I really enjoyed the first 80% of my Immortal game as Dido winning a Diplo Victory. But the last two eras waiting for the Congress to meet just became such a slog that I decided I'll probably never play for Diplo Victory again.That's not something I say lightly and it doesn't speak to the game working well that players would feel that way Maybe it's an anomaly, but I don't think so. The victory type just seems super disjointed from active participation and that's a real shame because it could be so good.

 

[Abaxial]

Really, to get a diplo victory you have to turn off all the other victory types, and you more or less have to do that to get a science victory as well. It is just so much easier to win by tourism, or religion (with a little help from the military).

 

[Sagax]

Starting wars, occupying cities and especially capitals, taking opponents off the map should really really dent your diplomatic favour, in order to discourage domination-based "diplomatic" victories.

This is sort of being addressed in the upcoming patch - you will gain less favor if you have too many grievances.

The other points still stand, though.