Proposed combat patrol system

Jedoc

Warlord
Joined
Nov 8, 2005
Messages
157
Location
Norman, Oklahoma
So I was playing Civ this morning before work. I'd had control of my home continent since the Renaissance, and I was minding my own business while gunning for a Cultural victory. I had three rings of Frigates around my continent giving me visibility over practically the entire ocean. However, then I discovered Combustion, oil started flowing in from several forts, and I spent a few turns of intense micromanagement tuning my cities to deal with the new Factory unhappiness.

While I was thus distracted, Joao merrily sailed a lightly-protected stack of Galleons through my picket lines, declared war, and took a coastal city through an amphibious assault during the first turn of the war.

Now, this happens. You take the city back, you bombard his coastal cities for a while, and after a while he pays you some gold to make the whole thing go away. But there was no reason for him to reached my cultural borders at all. I had enough Frigates to send his entire fleet to the bottom in two turns, and I had the cash and technology to upgrade half a dozen ships to Destroyers. Heck, just upgrading the defenders in the targeted city to Infantry the turn before would have been enough to completely wreck his dastardly plan.

So I started thinking about what elements would make up my ideal early-alert system for the second half of the game.

The first element is a user-controlled threat index in the Foreign Advisor screen. Clicking each leaderhead should bring up a pair of radio buttons which you can switch from the default, "Mostly Harmless," to "Backstab Ahoy." This setting will affect the information you get from recon missions.

The second element is an air patrol system. Basically, I would like to be able to set a continuous mission, similar to "Intercept," which causes a fighter to perform a recon sweep on the same tile at the beginning of each turn. This serves two functions: first, it allows you to use your air force for recon without clicking a dozen times per turn. And second, it pops up a message in the Event Log if a rival transport ship appears in the recon area. This does not include caravels, and only applies to civs you have tagged with the "Backstab Ahoy" label. The patrol mission uses up a fighter's turn, making it unavailable for intercept duty or bombing runs.

The third element is a naval patrol system. Let's face it, the Sentry mission is pretty useless, since ordinarily your enemy isn't actually your enemy until he's pulling a Pearl Harbor on your least-defended coastal city. Instead, your ships patrol between two set points or a circuit. There are two missions available for this purpose. Patrol merely flags Backstab Ahoy transports with an event log. Combat Patrol "wakes" the unit as soon as a Backstab Ahoy transport enters the field of view, halting the patrol and conferring control to the player. Three buttons are required: Set Patrol Point, Patrol, and Combat Patrol. This will allow the player to resume patrols without having to reset all the points every time a Combat Patrol spots an exploring Galleon. Any series of patrol points will comprise a linear, back and forth patrol unless the final point is laid overtop the initial point, which will create a circuit.

Since galleons and transports are really the only vessels of interest in overseas invasions, this system communicates all relevant information with a minimum of message clutter or gameplay interruption. What do you all think? Is due diligence a part of player strategy, or should it be delegated to your units? Did I deserve to lose Iron Bay, or should I have my Frigate captains flogged for failing the Motherland? Is this mod possible (or, even better, already built and ready to download) or do we have to wait for Civ V to see it?
 
The third element is a naval patrol system. Let's face it, the Sentry mission is pretty useless, since ordinarily your enemy isn't actually your enemy until he's pulling a Pearl Harbor on your least-defended coastal city. Instead, your ships patrol between two set points or a circuit. There are two missions available for this purpose. Patrol merely flags Backstab Ahoy transports with an event log. Combat Patrol "wakes" the unit as soon as a Backstab Ahoy transport enters the field of view, halting the patrol and conferring control to the player. Three buttons are required: Set Patrol Point, Patrol, and Combat Patrol. This will allow the player to resume patrols without having to reset all the points every time a Combat Patrol spots an exploring Galleon. Any series of patrol points will comprise a linear, back and forth patrol unless the final point is laid overtop the initial point, which will create a circuit.


I think I would be happy with "torpedo-boats" acting the same way as jet fighters. Just put them on "intercept" and they will attack whoever is at war with you and enters your cultural area, preventing a city ninja action. Of course torpedo-boats should attack destroyers before transports, to not make destroyers useless.
 
The second element is an air patrol system. Basically, I would like to be able to set a continuous mission, similar to "Intercept," which causes a fighter to perform a recon sweep on the same tile at the beginning of each turn. This serves two functions: first, it allows you to use your air force for recon without clicking a dozen times per turn. And second, it pops up a message in the Event Log if a rival transport ship appears in the recon area. This does not include caravels, and only applies to civs you have tagged with the "Backstab Ahoy" label. The patrol mission uses up a fighter's turn, making it unavailable for intercept duty or bombing runs.

I absolutely, wholeheartedly agree with this. For me the later game is so tedious because I have to assign a patrol region to a fleet of airships or planes on EVERY SINGLE TURN. This can get maddening. We should be able to assign a recon route to an air unit and have them carry it out automatically. This is essential to keeping an eye on the oceans. They can then wake up when something is spotted and alert the player.
 
Absolutely agree with the "air patrol system". In fact, in addition to the "explore" button, there should be a "patrol" button, which puts your navy or air force on auto patrol. Your warships should sail around the coast, planes should fly recon missions automatically.
You should be able to set manual "patrol points", to make your ship sailing between these points continuously.
 
Yes, the same old argument of "give me an exciting game, but don't give me any surprises!" :rolleyes:

Due diligence is the player's responsibility. Go through the drudgery of each recon mission when you feel the need. When you don't feel the need, then go to a lower level of alert by not bothering with the recon (or do fewer of them, with correspondingly less coverage). Having different levels of alert represented by YOUR priorities is REALISTIC.

To protect port cities from amphibious attack, place naval units in the adjacent coastal tiles. Stacks of naval units may prevent a naval force from coming adjacent to your city.
 
Due diligence is the player's responsibility.

I've heard of due diligence in the context of M&A transaction or securities litigation; Due diligence in a video game is probably a new concept. Congrats for being the first to come up with it.
 
Almost every strategy game (not that CIV is a traditional strategy game) has a patrol command. Why not? I know there are plenty of times I would use it.

As for the "due diligence" guy, we shouldn't have citizens automatically work tiles. After all, due diligence is the player's responsibility. Go through the drudgery of working each tile when you feel the need. When you don't feel the need, then go to a lower level of production by not bothering with working every tile (or work fewer of them, with correspondingly less production). Having different levels of production represented by YOUR priorities is REALISTIC.
 
There's something about moving some units every turn, manually patrolling your own borders, that is an unappealing level of micromanagement in a game that already lasts several hours each attempt. Most games do have patrol options. At the very least, being able to tell a unit to "move from here to here back and forth, and notify me when you see another civ" would help alleviate this and keep the player prepared.
 
I would love to see all of the ideas in the original post in Civ V.
Even better if some brilliant person could mod it into Civ IV :goodjob:
 
Could not agree more , I really would like a patrol function for both Air Force and Navy.

At present I try the old overlaying naval rings 2 or 3 deep were I can, on my turn check the Mini map and look at new coloured blops and see if it is a threat on the way to my area.

Another way I keep track, is look at the ports and park a ship normally a sub when available as normally the Enemy civ will only use a single city Port to launch a naval invasion, when you see lots of transports and units massing check if you are the possible target and start to position as required. This only works if you have more than a turn sailing distance
 
all they need is a sentry command that wakes up even if a friendly unit is nearby. perhaps they can make this just for naval units.
 
Enemy ships need to be bogged down when within your culture and not be allowed free mobility like on open oceans. Just how their land units can only move 1 move per turn and can't use your roads, their ships should only be able to move 1 tile per turn in your culture. That means they need to declare, and then have to wait for the next turn to attack. The current system is pretty ridiculous, as it's impossible to defend against a determined enemy without placing 10 units on each coastal city.

Usually intercontinental invasions are pretty weak, usually no more than 10 attackers, which half that many defenders can usually repel, since the AI loves to attack from boats with non amphibious troops. But once in a while Monty or Shaka will take over their entire continent, and then you're talking about having to defend against 10 transports full of troops, which is not pretty.
 
To protect port cities from amphibious attack, place naval units in the adjacent coastal tiles. Stacks of naval units may prevent a naval force from coming adjacent to your city.

OK, I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but I don't think this works. Simply having a ship in the ocean next to your city will do nothing to prevent a transport fleet from sailing up, DoWing, and dumping troops in the same turn. It WILL, of course, let you immediately begin blowing the (now empty) transports out of the water, but (while this feels good from a revenge point of view) this doesn't really alleviate the issue.

I actually don't like the idea of ships getting 'bogged down' in culture that is not their own. I think a better answer is some level of patrol command, or a sentry command modified to wake on spotting any transport/cargo carrying vessel. I don't think this is removing my "due diligence" - after all, I took the time to move the unit out there and set up my sensor net, that's about all the micromanagement I want - watching miles of empty ocean just in case a transport shows up should be a task I can delegate to my ship captains. (just as I delegate many other tasks to my simulated citizens... :)

This doens't seem like it'd be hard to me - but I have no mod experience, so I'll ask... Can you mod a command (like sentry) so that in addition to waking for an enemy unit, it wakes for any cargo-carrying unit?


Oh, and another note that sort of fits here, since we're talking about entering borders: I'd like to push for a two-tier Open Borders agreement system.

This would modify the open Borders treaty to two levels; a basic level that allows non-combat units (including explorers, finally giving us a use for these things) and an advanced level that truly allows open borders with all units. The first level should be pretty easy to get on the dip. scale, but the second level ought to require a fairly friendly level of relations.

This way you can have some control over what kind of units enter your borders. You (and the AI) can still scout out other civ's land with a level 1 agreement, using explorers, and can spread religion/corps with missionaries/execs. But you can't run a stack of tanks through another nation without REALLY good and trusting relations... I dunno, I think this would be a change that is both realistic and adds to better game play.
 
I agree dilligence is us the players responsibility. Still, I would like to have seen the option to set naval patrol points and regular airborne recon missions.

Even the 1978 version of Empire had that feature!
 
I don't know if someone has mentioned it but we can use orders queue (with shift button) to create an equivalent of patrol system. I don't know exact length of such a queue but it can be very long. Simply add order of moving from point A to B, then from B to A and repeat it many times.
Maybe it's not very convenient but can be used to spare time. Hope it is helpful for someone :)
 
What if instead of developing a patrol system you could have satelite servalence? That way after you discover satellites, all tiles would become visible and if an enemy ship came within 10 sqaures of any of your cultural borders a pop-up would appear.

Although I love the ideas you are all presenting, I think the patrol system would be too hard to integrate. If I didn't have to tell the same three fighters to look in the same three places every turn I would be greatly overjoyed. I just don't know how this would all be done.
 
The first element is a user-controlled threat index in the Foreign Advisor screen. Clicking each leaderhead should bring up a pair of radio buttons which you can switch from the default, "Mostly Harmless," to "Backstab Ahoy." This setting will affect the information you get from recon missions.

How do u do that. I went into the foreign advisor screen...
Can someone please give me a screenshot or a walkthrough as to how to switch this stuff?

Do i require a mod? Is it on Patch 3.13..... help me. TT-TT
 
The air recon missions system is one of the biggest holes in this game, it falls into the category "micromanagement nightmares".
 
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