[RD] Prostitution

[Snerk]

Arguably, a lot of that baggage is a result of prohibition.

Absolutely, that's a huge part of the dilemma. But on the other hand legalisations, standardisation and regulations would not be a fix all for the various problems associated with prostitution. Even in the places where the sex industry is heavily regulated I'd still wager it often a pretty crummy existence for those working in it.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Robots = problem solved

Maybe. How would you feel about hyper-realistic robots I could use to fulfill my bloodiest Dexter fantasies?

 

[Traitorfish]

Absolutely, that's a huge part of the dilemma. But on the other hand legalisations, standardisation and regulations would not be a fix all for the various problems associated with prostitution. Even in the places where the sex industry is heavily regulated I'd still wager it often a pretty crummy existence for those working in it.

Certainly, but I'd best that most of these issues would be better tackled as workers' rights and occupational health issues than as criminal issues. A lot of the problems faced by legal sex workers come about because they bear the full brunt of lax employment laws. In part this goes back to the issue of taboo: very few politicians and union representatives are willing to defend sex workers for fear of tarnishing a "family friendly" image.

(For some reason, defending a state's capacity to bring about a nuclear holocaust is not considered contrary to this image. Politics is a mystery.)

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Most hookers are forced into prostitution by poverty or traffickers. In the sex trade, markets fail. There are always more willing buyers than sellers, so unfair means are always used to increase the supply.

In a perfect world the sex trade would be fine. Our world is not perfect. While I admit this view will reduce the right of a few women willing to sell themselves, and the many men willing to buy sex, it protects the rights of people being exploited.

I am unaware of any place or time where legalization of the sex trade was not accomplished without much human misery.

All of this could be said about most low end jobs. Many manufacturing and construction jobs all over the world are at least as exploitative and dangerous as prostitution. There's really no rational reason to single out sex work.

 

[Old Hippy]

Most hookers are forced into prostitution by poverty or traffickers. In the sex trade, markets fail. There are always more willing buyers than sellers, so unfair means are always used to increase the supply.

Prostitution should be suppressed not because of moral considerations. We should suppress it to suppress the crimes and ills that usually accompany it. Policemen should break up brothels and arrest streetwalkers to reduce disease, human trafficking, exploitation and the drug trade.

yes your right, drugs do force many to turn to prostitution and its a sad way of life, but is the answer to then double up on their punishment by making it illegal, imprisoning them for earning the money to buy drugs and often then imprison them for using drugs
policemen usually end up profiting from prostitution as it is easy to set up a working girl or boy to find out about the drug trade by threats of arrest or the removal of their children by child welfare officers
if it is legal social workers and feminist groups can try to help them and again I reckon you could find prostitutes most anywhere wether it is legal or not
I have yet to see anywhere where it is illegal actually stop it from occurring. especially when drugs are involved

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Al of this could be said about most low end jobs. Many manufacturing and construction jobs all over the world are at least as exploitative and dangerous as prostitution. There's really no rational reason to single out sex work.

Well, if you have made up your mind, there is little reason to argue. Very few low-end jobs in the United States are done by people who are beaten up or threatened with violence. Many prostitutes are. It ought not to be that way, but that is how it is.

 

[red_elk]

It should be legalized, decriminalized and put under government control. Including workers rights, taxation and necessary medical procedures. Virtually everyone, except criminals, would benefit from such solution.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I've yet to come across an argument against legalizing prostitution that doesn't seem to boil down to some version of "that's yucky." Emotional, religious, sexual, whatever the case may be, they're all some version of "ew, gross", which to me is a valid reason for not partaking in prostitution, but not for making it illegal.

Personally, I don't know if I would sleep with a prostitute if it was legal. I'd have to think about that. But whether I would or not shouldn't be part of the conversation of whether people can (legally, I mean).

It should be legalized, decriminalized and put under government control. Including workers rights, taxation and necessary medical procedures. Virtually everyone, except criminals, would benefit from such solution.

A minor quibble, but do you mean "government regulation"? If so, I think I agree with that.

 

[red_elk]

Right, I mean government should have the similar role as in other industries - enforcing the law, protecting rights etc.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Well, if you have made up your mind, there is little reason to argue. Very few low-end jobs in the United States are done by people who are beaten up or threatened with violence. Many prostitutes are. It ought not to be that way, but that is how it is.

The USA isn't really a good example since prositution is mostly illegal there.
There definitely are problems in Germany as well, but I believe a ban would make the situation worse and not better.

As for Dexter Fantasy Robots, I am undecided on that. I am also undecided on potential sex robots that look like children. It's a disgusting thougt, but a safe outlet for people who have these urges could help reduce violence and child abuse. On the other hand, it could also desensitise people. I think we should defer to psychologists who know what they are talking about and try to leave our gut feelings out of this.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

I cannot think of any industry that is "put under government control" in the sense of ownership. I suppose prostitution is as much government regulation as it is possible to be. It is generally outlawed. That is the regulation this is done to protect workers' rights and for medical reasons.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Right, I mean government should have the similar role as in other industries - enforcing the law, protecting rights etc.

Yes, I agree. I think it's pretty clear that when an industry - any industry - goes without regulation and oversight it'll run amok and become amoral almost instantly. I could see sex work becoming something like the existing entertainment industries. The construction of things like casinos and strip clubs in existing communities is, I suppose, always a tussle.

There would also be a learning curve. Colorado & California are wrestling with how to manage marijuana right now. For instance, some moron decided it would be a good idea to put 1000mg - 4 "servings" worth - of THC in a single candy bar, and a bunch of people who ate, y'know, the candy bar, overdosed and got sick.

And of course, even when things are more or less ironed out, there can be issues. Multiple officials in Boston's Office of Tourism, Sports and Entertainment have recently been arrested for extortion, regarding their (mis)handling of licenses for an outdoor music festival.

 

[red_elk]

I cannot think of any industry that is "put under government control" in the sense of ownership. I suppose prostitution is as much government regulation as it is possible to be. It is generally outlawed. That is the regulation this is done to protect workers' rights and for medical reasons.

Government regulation is the opposite of forbidding. Outlawing something is essentially refusing to regulate, considering it as unacceptable practice. Since demand of such services will exist anyway, outlawing them will only lead to criminalizing of industry, abuse of workers, STI spread, etc. As for the questions of ethics and morality, I consider two adults having consensual sex is perfectly moral.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I cannot think of any industry that is "put under government control" in the sense of ownership.

"Paul in Saudi" has never heard of Saudi Aramco?

I suppose prostitution is as much government regulation as it is possible to be. It is generally outlawed. That is the regulation this is done to protect workers' rights and for medical reasons.

Sorry, I don't see any usefulness in conflating "legal" and "regulated."

 

[EgonSpengler]

As for Dexter Fantasy Robots, I am undecided on that. I am also undecided on potential sex robots that look like children. It's a disgusting thougt, but a safe outlet for people who have these urges could help reduce violence and child abuse. On the other hand, it could also desensitise people. I think we should defer to psychologists who know what they are talking about and try to leave our gut feelings out of this.

I agree, using dolls or robots as proxies for violence is a tricky thing. I would also want to know what the psychological outcomes are, but I'm undecided on what I think the law should have to say on the matter. What about a 18- or 19-year-old woman who simply looks very young, putting on a "cheerleader" outfit and braces on her teeth and acting like a teenager as part of a performance? Should that be illegal, or regulated, or neither? My quick take is regulated, but even that's tricky. I mean, porn is porn and you can regulate that accordingly, but what about a Britney Spears music video? The line gets fuzzy pretty quickly.

 

[Vectors]

I personally find prostitution distasteful and immoral however prohibition has never actually ended it so for the sake of the welfare of sex workers I think it should be legal, with much more severe consequences for sex trafficking.

 

[luiz]

I think it's clear that it should be legalized and regulated, both from a moral / individual liberty POV but also and perhaps more importantly from a public health POV.

Is it my impression or is there a growing trend among so-called progressive people to favor the criminalization of stuff like prostitution and even porn?

 

[Vectors]

I think it's clear that it should be legalized and regulated, both from a moral / individual liberty POV but also and perhaps more importantly from a public health POV.

Is it my impression or is there a growing trend among so-called progressive people to favor the criminalization of stuff like prostitution and even porn?

I wouldn't say it is a growing trend, instead there is a growing trend among SJW that since spoiled rich white girls did it safely and made money doing extremely safe and protected sex work like camwhoring (AFAIK that's the only English term for it) that clearly sex work is empowering and liberating.

 

[The_J]

As I see it, prostitution is not wrong per se. We all know stories about young, (nubile, eager, tanned) lades working their way through law school. But (in my experience, in several nations on three continents.) These cases are rare.

Apparently not that rare, since e.g. 5% of all UK students work in that area (link).

 

[mrt144]

As someone who did sex work at one point, I'm for legalizing and taxing. it's got potential to be bad but you gotta weigh it against the overall impact on society and with mind to bodily autonomy.