PTW vs Conquests

[Strong Reaction]

I normally play Conquests, but I decided to fire up a game of PTW for the hell of it. I am playing Monarch level. I did very well during the Ancient times netting two wonders. During beginning of the Middle Ages I also fared well netting multiple wonders, but toward the end of the Middle ages I started lagging waaay behind in techs. Even the tiny 5 city Mongol nation is out-researching me in Techs and produces nearly three Cavalry per turn, ridiculous.

It seems the AI players start to pull away technologically in PTW vs Conquests.
What gives? Is PTW Monarch level different than Conquests? Better perks/cheats for the AI in PTW?

 

[del62]

Scientists in C3C are much better than PTW, as the AI does not use science farms this may have an effect.

Another thing about PTW is you dont get Tourist Income from wonders, which means various AA wonders have a very low shelf life

 

[Optional]

During beginning of the Middle Ages I also fared well netting multiple wonders, but toward the end of the Middle ages I started lagging waaay behind in techs.

Are you in Monarchy perhaps? Monarchy is still strong for research in the AA and early MA, but starts to lose it to Republic in the later MA, whether you're playing PTW or Conquests.
Besides what del62 already said about the contribution of scientists, the mechanics between the two versions of the game are similar. It's probably not a PTW versus Conquests thing.

You can always upload a save, of course, if you would want more specific advice on your situation.

 

[CommandoBob]

Corruption is very different in PTW than Conquests. Placement of your Foribidden Palace is a very big deal. It acts like a second palace in calculating corruption (a second zero corruption point), so a common thing was to have the Forbidden Palace built far away (20 or 30 tiles) from the capital in order to take advantage of that fact. Ring-City-Placement (RCP) is a good way to reduce corruption but it takes more planning of city sites than in Conquests.

Geeks give 1 beaker per turn and taxmen 1 coin per turn. In Conquests, they give 3 and 2.

[EDIT]:
My first version of Civ3 was PTW.

 

[Fiddlin Nero]

I'm still playing with my Civ3 Gold version which is PTW. I have been suspicious for a long time about the tech lead people seem to always have so easily. Having played this version for years now at Monarch I would guess I'm on par or ahead in tech 1 in 10 games. I see it as a good thing because the pitiful AI needs all the help it can get. Always being behind in tech keeps me humble and avoiding war with multiple AI civs at all cost.

 

[timerover51]

I normally play Conquests, but I decided to fire up a game of PTW for the hell of it. I am playing Monarch level. I did very well during the Ancient times netting two wonders. During beginning of the Middle Ages I also fared well netting multiple wonders, but toward the end of the Middle ages I started lagging waaay behind in techs. Even the tiny 5 city Mongol nation is out-researching me in Techs and produces nearly three Cavalry per turn, ridiculous.

It seems the AI players start to pull away technologically in PTW vs Conquests.
What gives? Is PTW Monarch level different than Conquests? Better perks/cheats for the AI in PTW?

By the Middle Ages, I suspect that most if not all of the AI civilizations are in contact with each other and are busy trading techs back and forth. You are not competing against each individual civilization, but all of them at the same time.

The ways off getting around that is playing on a huge or larger map of either continents or archipelago, where you have to make contact over the oceans, which slows down AI inter-communication or reduce the number of AI or both. I normally do both.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

It seems the AI players start to pull away technologically in PTW vs Conquests.
What gives? Is PTW Monarch level different than Conquests? Better perks/cheats for the AI in PTW?

Well, yes, when it comes to the AI there is one crucial difference between C3/PTW and C3C. The ability to trade contacts comes as early as Writing in PTW/C3, whereas it comes comparatively late in C3C with Printing Press.

Now the thing is, earlier contact trading means that all the AI know each other earlier too. And the AI knowing each other, means that they can trade amongst each other. This in turn makes the AI-AI trade bonus, which increases as the levels get higher, come to bear much more heavily.

 

[Strong Reaction]

Well, yes, when it comes to the AI there is one crucial difference between C3/PTW and C3C. The ability to trade contacts comes as early as Writing in PTW/C3, whereas it comes comparatively late in C3C with Printing Press.

Now the thing is, earlier contact trading means that all the AI know each other earlier too. And the AI knowing each other, means that they can trade amongst each other. This in turn makes the AI-AI trade bonus, which increases as the levels get higher, come to bear much more heavily.

By default I've been playing Conquests, so I've forgotten all the nuances of PTW, including the ability to trade civ contacts very early. Yes, my previous foray was a disaster;I had to concede defeat.

I also forgot that leaders can build wonders, which is a little treat, since only scientific leaders can do so in Conquests.

My strategy now (new game) is forgo building wonders, unless I produce a leader, and concentrate on grabbing as much land as I can, produce setters and defensive units and go to war in the hopes my elite units will create some leaders. Hopefully by the time I enter the IA I can build the Theory of Evolution and use that tech jump to pull away from the AI.

 

[Ataxerxes]

By default I've been playing Conquests, so I've forgotten all the nuances of PTW, including the ability to trade civ contacts very early. Yes, my previous foray was a disaster;I had to concede defeat.

I also forgot that leaders can build wonders, which is a little treat, since only scientific leaders can do so in Conquests.

My strategy now (new game) is forgo building wonders, unless I produce a leader, and concentrate on grabbing as much land as I can, produce setters and defensive units and go to war in the hopes my elite units will create some leaders. Hopefully by the time I enter the IA I can build the Theory of Evolution and use that tech jump to pull away from the AI.

Sounds pretty good for the most part. However, I usually use MGL's to create armies. They break the game. However, I would go easy on defensive units and build more offensive. The AI respects them more for relative power and I usually don't like waiting around for the AI or barbs to pillage me.

I usually use Republic and you have to always trade with the AI. I'm usually behind in the early game and I start to pull ahead at the time you start to decline. Late Classical is when I start to dominate the AI's.

 

[vmxa]

Armies are weaker in PTW than they are in C3C. Still useful, but weaker and of course it is harder to burn a leader for an army in PTW as it could rush a wonder.

 

[Strong Reaction]

Some of the differences I have noticed in PTW vs. Conquests
(note: the word seem/seems and also the differences are subject to playing style)

*Armies will not fully heal in city with barracks, heal in increments

*Artillery bombardment seem to be more inaccurate (lack of trebuchet + catapults aren't replaced by cannon until the late MA, this means cities have had time to grow,defense bonus, & MA units are tougher to damage with a catapult).

*Second continent civs seek contact with human player aggressively. This can be a huge bonus if you have built the Great Library. In Conquest I have to aggressively attempt to find the second continent before Education nullifies the Great Library.

*AI seems to research quicker than conquests

*AI more eager to sell Tech. AI seems to be more tech stingy in Conquests

*Trade value of unique Tech seems to lose value quicker in PTW

*Parity: by the time I find all the competing civs in PTW everyone is relatively equal in size.

By no means is the list comprehensive, these are just some of the things I noticed.
Also, it seems like it takes more effort to expand in PTW than Conquests. This may be due to the Civ traits. I usually play the Aztecs. In PTW they are Militaristic and Religious, but in Conquest they are Militaristic and Agricultural.

 

[vmxa]

http://apolyton.net/showthread.php/95446-Comprehensive-Feature-List-in-Conquests

compare ptw to c3c changes iirc

 

[CommandoBob]

Also, in PTW, the IND trait is great. IND workers work at 200%, not 150% in C3C. On roads that is not a big impact. It will take one worker two turns to road a flatland tile in both versions. But on hills and mining, not to mention when rails come into play, it can be a huge difference. Normal worker turns to road and mine a hill, 12 turns. C3C, 8 turns. PTW, 6 turns.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Also, in PTW, the IND trait is great. IND workers work at 200%, not 150% in C3C. On roads that is not a big impact. It will take one worker two turns to road a flatland tile in both versions. But on hills and mining, not to mention when rails come into play, it can be a huge difference. Normal worker turns to road and mine a hill, 12 turns. C3C, 8 turns. PTW, 6 turns.

And don't forget that slaves are more powerful too. They are always at half the speed of your native worker. And it is especially great when you are industrious. A team of one native and one slave finishes a road in one turn, and later on with Replacable Parts the same team finishes a Railroad in one turn.

----
ETA: Oh, oh and upgrades. In C3/PTW you pay only two gold per shield when you upgrade units. With Leo's (conveniently rushed with a Leader) you even pay only one gold per shield. So, an upgrade from Horseman to Knight costs 80 or even just 40 gold. Total bargain.

 

[Ataxerxes]

Also, in PTW, the IND trait is great. IND workers work at 200%, not 150% in C3C. On roads that is not a big impact. It will take one worker two turns to road a flatland tile in both versions. But on hills and mining, not to mention when rails come into play, it can be a huge difference. Normal worker turns to road and mine a hill, 12 turns. C3C, 8 turns. PTW, 6 turns.

This should be noted. Agricultural is the top trait in C3C (or one of the best). Industrious was just awesome in PTW. Easily the strongest trait - I got addicted to it.

Minor slave suggestion - have slaves build roads so they pay the movement cost and then have regular workers build the improvements. That way the turns lost to moving onto unroaded lands only cost half as much.

 

[timerover51]

Armies are weaker in PTW than they are in C3C. Still useful, but weaker and of course it is harder to burn a leader for an army in PTW as it could rush a wonder.

How are Armies weaker in PTW compared to Conquests? Looking at their data in the editor, they appear to be identical.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

How are Armies weaker in PTW compared to Conquests? Looking at their data in the editor, they appear to be identical.

C3/PTW armies do not get any kind of attack/defense/movement bonuses, whereas C3C armies do. (A knight army in C3C will be about as strong as a Cavalry army in C3/PTW.)

C3/PTW armies cannot pillage at all, whereas C3C armies get free pillaging, i.e. they can pillage without losing any movement.

C3 armies in early versions of C3 could not blitz (It is possibe that blitzing was dependent on the units in the army, though). In PTW and later versions of C3 they can, if applicable, i.e. if they have more than one move.

Healing is also different. C3/PTW armies heal one unit at a time, as somebody already pointed out. Means, if you place it in a city with barracks it will take more than just one full turn to heal. It'll take one full turn for every injured unit.



Basically you could think of C3/PTW armies as larger versions of the units they are comprised of. As a 12 HP cavalry (or what have you). A 12 HP cavalry that cannot pillage, that may not heal in one full turn, but can attack once for every movement point.

 

[vmxa]

IIRC in PTW armies could not heal in enemy lands, but they can in C3C. That is huge along with the extra move in C3C. Pillage is nice bonus, but not critical to me as I do little of it.

 

[timerover51]

Responding to both Lord Emsworth and VMXA:

I am looking at the editor for PTW and the editor for Conquests, with both programs being loaded off of the Civilizations Chronicles disc set for Civilization 3. I assume that both reflect the most current and final form of the editor.

Both of the programs, for Army, have the Load, Pillage, and Capture boxes checked, along with 1 (One) Movement and a capacity of 3. I have no experience with the healing issue, but I have experience with the Army in Conquest healing in neutral or friendly territory outside of a city. In the editor for the original basic game, the Army has only the Load box checked, and DOES NOT have the Pillage box checked, so that is a major difference. Movement is still 1 (One) and capacity is 3.

I will do some testing on the healing question and post results here. I will see what I can do about the question of attacking and defensive bonuses.

 

[vmxa]

C3 armies in early versions of C3 could not blitz (It is possibe that blitzing was dependent on the units in the army, though). In PTW and later versions of C3 they can, if applicable, i.e. if they have more than one move.

In C3 units lost their special ability, such as blitz and amphib. That was changed in PTW so an army that was wholely of that unit type (all marines for example) retain that trait.