Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
The official verdict poll is posted here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30099
PUBLIC INVESTIGATION - Discussion (donsig)
- Thread starter Bill_in_PDX
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Eklektikos
Eponymous
Public Defender's Closing Remarks.
Did Donsig's actions violate the rights of the Senators?
No. They didn't.
His actions did not hamper the Senate in their voting, and nowhere have I seen written down in the constitution any article, law or standard which defines Senate Vote threads as exclusively containing vote-posts. Nor have I seen anything in the constitution prohibiting the asking of searching questions.
Sure, the content of Donsig's posts was indeed confrontational, but that is wholely irrelevant to this investigation, since the law he is accused of violating relates only to his right to post in the thread and not to what he may post. Equally, anything concerning defiance of Moderation is purely a matter for the Moderators, is not covered by the constitution, and as such is not relevant to this investigation.
Whatever you think of Donsig's motives for posting in the thread and whatever you might think of what he posted, I ask you to leave those judgements to one side for the duration of this investigation. There is a proper time for punishing people for being a pain - it's called "election time". And let's face it: all Donsig is truly guilty of is annoying a group of elected officials with impertinent questions. That's how all this started and the day I see a law against that written into the constitution will be the day I leave the demogame.
Donsig is guilty of no violation of any article, law or standard within the Constitution, and I hope that you can all see that fact and will vote accordingly.
~Eklektikos
Public Defender.
Did Donsig's actions violate the rights of the Senators?
No. They didn't.
His actions did not hamper the Senate in their voting, and nowhere have I seen written down in the constitution any article, law or standard which defines Senate Vote threads as exclusively containing vote-posts. Nor have I seen anything in the constitution prohibiting the asking of searching questions.
Sure, the content of Donsig's posts was indeed confrontational, but that is wholely irrelevant to this investigation, since the law he is accused of violating relates only to his right to post in the thread and not to what he may post. Equally, anything concerning defiance of Moderation is purely a matter for the Moderators, is not covered by the constitution, and as such is not relevant to this investigation.
Whatever you think of Donsig's motives for posting in the thread and whatever you might think of what he posted, I ask you to leave those judgements to one side for the duration of this investigation. There is a proper time for punishing people for being a pain - it's called "election time". And let's face it: all Donsig is truly guilty of is annoying a group of elected officials with impertinent questions. That's how all this started and the day I see a law against that written into the constitution will be the day I leave the demogame.
Donsig is guilty of no violation of any article, law or standard within the Constitution, and I hope that you can all see that fact and will vote accordingly.
~Eklektikos
Public Defender.
disorganizer
Deity
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hmmm. isnt that taking partial influence on the active poll?
FionnMcCumhall
Emperor
Originally posted by Eklektikos
And let's face it: all Donsig is truly guilty of is annoying a group of elected officials with impertinent questions.
QUOTE]
That may be but personally if he had questions or doubts then he should have brought them up in a proper thread. Instead he brought them up in a SENATE ONLY poll to a change in the laws. I dont remember Donsig being elected as a governor this term, nope that was last term. If he had problems he should have opened up a new thread or PM'd each Senator to discuss his ideas on why the change is bad, but he didnt. Then he went against a mod by continuously disregarding what the mod was saying to him. Personally i say he is lucky he is getting this PI instead of being banned which im sure happens to people who do not obey the forum rules.
Okay said my piece. If Donsig would apologize for not thinking clearly and going half cocked into this, im sure this whole thing wouldnt have to continue and we go on and talk about the start of the Game of Democracy II.
P.S. I apologize to anyone that this statement offends
Eklektikos
Eponymous
While the voting is for the Senate only, the content of the thread is not explicitly specified in the Constitution. If Donsig had been attempting to vote in the thread then that would have been a violation (as well as laughably pointless). Non-vote posts by citizens have been allowed in this type of vote thread for as long as I have been in the demogame (which is since the beginning of term 2, I believe), and so I do not see that they would suddenly become an offence now.
donsig
Low level intermediary
It is my hope that the citizens of Phoenatica will be able to put aside their feelings about me and concentrate on the issue at hand when voting in the trial poll. Do not vote for donsig or against donsig. Vote for free speech not against free speech. Vote to make our elected officials answerable to the citizens of Phoenatica. Do not make it easier for our senators and leaders hide behind their own silence. There may well come a day when you want to hear why an official is voting in a particular way. Do not let this public investigation and trial hamper your ability to get answers in the future. Reaffirm our constitutional right to free speech!
My initial post in the vote thread was a call for Senators the explain why they voted for a constitutional amendment. Posting by citizens in cabinet/council votes has been an on going phenomenon in Phoenatica's history and I saw nothing wrong with doing so. My post was removed by a mod and I felt that was inappropriate. My reaction was one of civil disobediaence by reposting. The reposting is not on trial here. That is an issue for Thunderfall and the mods to handle. As I said earlier, I do not intend for this public investigation to be a substitute for any mod actions. The purpose of this PI is to determine if any Phoenatican laws have been broken. This PI is not about breaking forum rules. Whether forum rules were broken will be determined by the appropriate authorities.
This PI is about whether it is appropriate (and therefore constitutional) for citizens to post comments and inquiries in senate or council vote threads.
My initial post in the vote thread was a call for Senators the explain why they voted for a constitutional amendment. Posting by citizens in cabinet/council votes has been an on going phenomenon in Phoenatica's history and I saw nothing wrong with doing so. My post was removed by a mod and I felt that was inappropriate. My reaction was one of civil disobediaence by reposting. The reposting is not on trial here. That is an issue for Thunderfall and the mods to handle. As I said earlier, I do not intend for this public investigation to be a substitute for any mod actions. The purpose of this PI is to determine if any Phoenatican laws have been broken. This PI is not about breaking forum rules. Whether forum rules were broken will be determined by the appropriate authorities.
This PI is about whether it is appropriate (and therefore constitutional) for citizens to post comments and inquiries in senate or council vote threads.
Bill_in_PDX
Grumpy Submariner
Judge Advocate
Thank you to all for posting your comments during this discussion phase. As noted previously the vote is being held here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30099
The vote will continue until August 21, at 1516 GMT.
Should donsig be found guilty, a new thread will be opened by me for the penalty/sentencing phase. The laws governing a sentencing are covered in Code of Standards, Section H, Point 8.
Judge Advocate
Thank you to all for posting your comments during this discussion phase. As noted previously the vote is being held here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30099
The vote will continue until August 21, at 1516 GMT.
Should donsig be found guilty, a new thread will be opened by me for the penalty/sentencing phase. The laws governing a sentencing are covered in Code of Standards, Section H, Point 8.
Judge Advocate
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