Puppet states need to add policy costs like regular cities

[andrewlt]

Or the costs of annexation are too high. If they reduced the unhappiness penalty, or made courthouses a lot cheaper, that might work. Even making courthouses expensive but purchasable might make the difference.

Annexing appears to not pay dividends until long after the annexation, which also hurts. Who knows if the game is even going to last that long?

The production costs and maintenance costs of courthouses are so high that razing and resettling is a better option all the time (except on the rare chance a non-capital AI city has a really good world wonder). Captured cities end up having all their buildings destroyed and have low population anyway.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The production costs and maintenance costs of courthouses are so high that razing and resettling is a better option all the time (except on the rare chance a non-capital AI city has a really good world wonder). Captured cities end up having all their buildings destroyed and have low population anyway.

The best solution for that....
Razing cities gives the territory to the nearest city of the original owner of the city (except the first ring). So if you Raze a city, you have to eliminate the civ to get the Territory.
(so you must continue to march through hostile territory if you raze cities.)

 

[andrewlt]

The best solution for that....
Razing cities gives the territory to the nearest city of the original owner of the city (except the first ring). So if you Raze a city, you have to eliminate the civ to get the Territory.
(so you must continue to march through hostile territory if you raze cities.)

That might still be better than annexing, honestly. Annexing is just so terrible with how high the production and maintenance requirements of courthouses are and how high the happiness penalties of not having one are.

Also, another advantage to the puppets is that they almost always build a monument first, so that's 2 culture guaranteed without making social policy costs higher.

 

[Paeanblack]

I really like the puppets...in terms of keeping the game from getting bogged down. The fact that they build barracks and academies is a nuisance, but not a huge deal.

The fact that puppets do not increase the policy cost is a problem, definitely. They should do so, and the current system looks like a design oversight or an outright bug.

One thing I would absolutely love to see is puppets breaking away and starting new city-states if your happiness is negative for an extended duration. Perhaps there could be an "unhappiness bucket", which increases every turn your net happiness is negative. Every time that bucket fills up, a puppet breaks away from your empire.

This lets you start a large war, capture a bunch of land, spend some time as a massive, overextended empire, and then have most of your gains splinter off, leaving you just slightly larger and more advanced than you were before. It's happened plenty of times in history.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

That might still be better than annexing, honestly. Annexing is just so terrible with how high the production and maintenance requirements of courthouses are and how high the happiness penalties of not having one are.

Also, another advantage to the puppets is that they almost always build a monument first, so that's 2 culture guaranteed without making social policy costs higher.

Well this is with Celevin's Puppet idea

so
Razing... you get Nothing, not even the territory to resettle in.
Puppet... you get the territory, and the option of annexing (but no productive output)
Annex... you get the Territory, and the productive output of the city (but extra unhappiness and social policy costs)

 

[Roxlimn]

Razing and resettling isn't always better - just usually better. If you raze and resettle, you have to retake all the land the city had already claimed for itself. If this was a large city and the Courthouse would have finished in, say, 12 turns anyway, then it might be a better deal to just start it off right away rather than make a settler back home and then ship it overseas.

 

[Celevin]

The best solution for that....
Razing cities gives the territory to the nearest city of the original owner of the city (except the first ring). So if you Raze a city, you have to eliminate the civ to get the Territory.
(so you must continue to march through hostile territory if you raze cities.)

I really really like something like this, of how you eliminated the city but the culture sticks. This, plus maybe a mechanic to remove opposing culture (military + a gold cost + culture of your own?) would be really cool.

Unfortunately it goes into the balance/addition instead of fixing territory, but it's an awesome idea.

 

[cembandit]

Don't agree with OP, puppets are fine and have their own handicaps.

 

[Celevin]

Don't agree with OP, puppets are fine and have their own handicaps.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=388046

Not really. They are completely broken.

1 city, nothing but trade posts in the other ones. Coulda won by culture by 1700 easily.