PYL IV - Watery Leaders!

[Bleys]

Bleys:

Spoiler :

I can't check now because the saves are gone, but I can swear it had trade routes. Might be my mind playing tricks on me though.

TMIT and Born:

Spoiler :

Its possible you had trade routes post-Currency, some techs give TRs to ALL cities, not just coastal ones. But that city has no Coastal TRs.

Fort canal sounds like a great idea, I will check it out soon, I already trashed the test-game, though.

That opens up some other crazy things though, what if you build a city inland, and string forts to the sea? Can you sail naval ships into the city? How does that actually work? Be something to check into for those lame 1-tile off the ocean cities the AI loves to build.

 

[Rumata]

Izzy
Normal/Emperor 2016 (End Game)

Spoiler :

As I said it was my first game with Izzy and first game on island map, I made huge number of mistakes but managed to win space race
Here report in pictures


1) Spain UB is not completely useles In my moai capitol I built 12 CR3 trebs and upgraded to cannos

2) with CR3 cannons war with Joao was piece of cake

3)

4)

5)

6)
Sid's Sushi Co Developed my cities and switched into state property

7)
http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll101/rumata_2008/Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg

In middle ages my strategy was : 2 golden ages (artist + wonder), liberalism (took Nationalism), rifles, while teaching I built 12 CR3 trebs, then added to stack some Cavalry, upgraded CR2-CR3 axes and trebs to rifles and cannons and wiped Joao from my island in few turns almost without losses



PS
sorry for my english

 

[BornSlippy]

TMIT and Born:

Spoiler :

Its possible you had trade routes post-Currency, some techs give TRs to ALL cities, not just coastal ones. But that city has no Coastal TRs.

Fort canal sounds like a great idea, I will check it out soon, I already trashed the test-game, though.

That opens up some other crazy things though, what if you build a city inland, and string forts to the sea? Can you sail naval ships into the city? How does that actually work? Be something to check into for those lame 1-tile off the ocean cities the AI loves to build.

Spoiler :

I was wondering about the string of forts too, but if they work like cities chances are you can't build them next to each other. I've never actually tried. If that's the case, you probably can't build them next to cities either. Must be tested!

You're probably right that my trade routes were post-currency though. *headsmack*

Also, a final point... please call me Slippy. Only my mother calls me Born.

 

[Ibian]

My save seems to have been corrupted. Its extremely slow and choppy and not fixable with the usual reload trick. I wont be finishing.

 

[Rumata]

Spoiler :

Started second game, Ragnar on Immortal
much easier for me than emperor Izzy
9 cities 12-15 size, in ~1400 without conquests
better traits and better starting position

 

[InFlux5]

Bleys & TheMeInTeam:

Nice arguments. You've changed the way I look at Mehmed vis-a-vis water maps. I guess I never put all the pieces together. Also the fact of cheap Harbors slipped my mind when I made that first post.

 

[Snapman]

I'll have a crack at this - Monarch, Epic, Hannibal

 

[OJimiJam]

Havn't done one these before but ill give it a go.

Isabella / Mornarch / Normal speed

 

[patagonia]

I'm gonna go with Ragnar on emperor.

Me too I think. My warmongering needs some improvement and he might be just the leader on a watery map.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Washington Prince Normal Turn 147

Spoiler :

Nothing much to say; my slider went down to 10% and then back up to 40% when I discovered Currency; I've got open borders with everybody I can and am basically in the "explore and economize" phase. I'm rather glad I took out Ragnar; it looks like he would have been expanding towards me anyway. I've popped some Great Scientists, but I believe I researches Meditation. I've deliberately avoided trying for the Great Lighthouse, as I'm a weirdo.

 

[OJimiJam]

Isabella / Monarch / Normal

Played this one out last night, early game was strong but i ended up wasting my good position.

Spoiler :

Not really a huge fan of water maps as a whole, but i love isabella so i guess things balance out.

Settled in place - no real reason not to, and started on a workboat and research mysticism.

I have choose religion on i assume this is ok here? i just do it fo flavour.

I worked the lake for the early commerce and got my religion on turn 9 (3460)

Its izzy, how could i not?

Menwhile i had got lucky and popped both hunting and archery from huts meaning no problem from barbs even though i was sans copper for a while (although i assume on this kind of map theyre not really an issue)

Founded barcalona to grab the rice and the gold to my north - a pretty junk city but that early commerce was huge and as youll see later it didnt really cost me anything.

then on turn turn 77 (950BC) i got one of my favourite wonders, and one id imagine most people shot for - The Great Lighthouse.

This essentially would let me settle anywhere, as long as it was by the sea, tasty.

By this point i had noticed that all the wonders were dropping late, i was the only civ with a headstart on the religious track, and barcalona had a few forests it didnt really need. That meant only one thing - oracle time.

Took metal casting for a shot at the collosus(sp?). I also built a quick temple and ran a priest in baraclona to get a prophet for my shrine before the GLH merchant.

Im quite happy with how things are going at the moment, with my growing empire looking like this:

Seville to claim the copper, cow and rice which Madrid didnt really need, Cordoba for stone and more copper, and toledo for some gems and bananas and IIRC fish as well.

From here i tech pretty solidly (thanks GLH) and continue to settle the area to my south (although washington beat me to the only iron i could find lying around). Around 700AD i noticed that Joao had a very tasty looking (Pyramids, Henge), yet poorly defended capital, with no metals on our landmass.

I devised a clever plan, and slowly built some cats and axes (still no iron) in Madrid and seville, while i built some new ships in barcalona. I blockaded Lisbon the same turn i declared, so Joao could only whip archers (not scary when you have cats) and i wiped him off my landmass (razed a junk city north of lsibon) before getting peace.

Lsibon was indeed a nice catch:

All this meant that be 1150AD spain was doing pretty nicely, i should mention that i had grabbed the collosus at some point but didnt get a screenie:

I got given (and completed ~10 turns later) The harbormaster quest and went for the +1 gold to all harbors option, natch.

I dont know about anyone else but i got the feeling that the AI were really slow this game, wonders and tech wise. Then i suddenly realised why:

If you look carefully everyone but Raggles and Willem were running different religions, and there had been long running wars between Raggles and Washington, and Mehmed and Willem. This eventually led to:

Mehmed wiped Willem off the map for good, which eventually led to the formation of a Buddhist Mehmed and (converted)Ragnar bloc.

However i still held a commanding grip on the lib race

I eventually used it for Physics!, with the AI teching slowly i became pretty complacent and didnt really pay much attention to the game. Got the Taj without any diffulcty but after the GA things started to go down hill.

With no more decent sites to settle, and a lack of production to really form an army my research stopped really improving and my power failed to keep up. Also Hannibal and Mehmed had finally got around to doing some teching and slowly started to catch up.

In the end Joao declared on me with a decent stack, and blockaded some of my main ports, crippling the delicate TRE/CE i had going, and i just gave up, with no real way to fight back. Looking back i should have taken lib for steel early, got some deadly CR3 cannons going and gone on a bit of a romp, but with no real allies i was too nervous to start a real war.

I might give it another go but chances are ill wait for a different, more land friendly game. Not the best first shared game, but i guess that just poves im still learning.

 

[PaulusIII]

Hannibal, Emperor/Epic: 4000 BC - 430 AD

Spoiler :

Part 1 - The Rise of Carthage

My initial plan of a typical CE went down the drain after I scouted out my lands. Carthage's own island, while having several happy resources, is not a good ground for a CE due to the many bad tiles (desert, tundra, ice) and little rivers. Instead of that, I went for a trade route economy. Pretty good on maps like this one, where nearly every city is coastal and they all get the +2 trade routes from the Great Lighthouse. That wonder is game-deciding on this map.

I'm pretty sure many more of you have also built the Great Lighthouse - a no-brainer on a Seafarers map with as much offshore trade as this map has got. I got the Great Lighthouse in 1325 BC and proceeded straight to Compass - the Carthaginian UB offering an extra trade route in addition to a sorely-needed health bonus and increased trade route income. Compass in 650 BC - I think that's the earliest I ever got that tech. Usually it's a tech 'for later' but in this game it's proving vital.

Unfortunately, Carthage's mainland has room for 5, maybe 6 cities food-wise, and of those the southern arctic cities are nearly useless save for trade routes until corporations. Productionwise, the land is so poor I'm still relying on slavery to get infrastructure up. Carthage itself has the Moai, and Hippo on the landmass north of Carthage is a nice production site with iron and two food resources.



The world is peaceful until now. There's one big happy Buddhist bloc consisting of Isabella, Joao, Washington, Ragnar and me. Willem and Mehmed are Hindu - as such, there are some tensions between them and Isabella. In fact, the only negative diplo is Izzy being annoyed at Willem. Willem is however gearing up for war - he's showing WHEOOHRN. I suppose it's either me or Ragnar - his next-door neighbour Mehmed is his best friend, and I and Ragnar are the nearest two civs. My power rating isn't that high since I've until now focused on infrastructure rather than troops.

That is going to change, however. Mehmed seems to be lagging behind in his development, and looks like an appealing target. Once Hippo has its infra up that city is going to build nothing but troops to eventually attack the Ottomans. Overall I'm doing surprisingly well techwise. I still have Machinery and Civil Service on everybody - might trade one of them away for Feudalism, though. If this was Monarch, I'd probably already have a lock on the game if I can manage +/- 150 beakers in 430 AD. But this is Emperor, so the game isn't won just yet.

 

[patagonia]

Ragnar: Emperor/Normal (OCC) - endgame

Spoiler :

I decided to convert this to a OCC and see how competitive Ragnar's start could be. Financial is a moderately useful trait on a water map, and his UB would be handy for exploration, but otherwise he's a leader that's somewhat lacking in the classic OCC strengths.

I settled Nidaros in place and set about an early game strategy of pursuing the Great Lighthouse. Early intercontinental trade should be easy to come by on this map and I'd want to be in HR to get the capital big and working as many tiles as possible, so going for the pyramids and representation didn't seem worth it.

I got a nice random event early on:

And got the +2 in exchange for a couple of angry faces. That health would prove to be a real bonus pre-biology given the lack of resources within reach of Nidaros. Not too long afterwards, the first part of the strategy was complete:

From then on, it was very much a case of teching to Monarchy (I didn't think I could rely on the AI both getting it early and being willing to trade it ASAP) and then growing the capital. I'd decided on Moai, Globe, NP, NE and Oxford as the 5 national wonders since they'd be by far the most use in this location. Missing out on the ironworks turned out to be no bad thing, since I lacked metal and coal in this game. Religions were quite well spread, which made diplomacy quite delicate, but was probably a good thing for keeping my Vikings competitive on a global scale. I was able to keep most of the AI that mattered pleased, except for Mehmed who duly declared while the liberalism race was in full swing, landing a fearsome stack:

All his units suicided against one of my longbows, and he signed peace again soon afterwards. He later turned his attention to first Hannibal, then Joao, as sporadic wars broke out across the globe. However, I managed to stay at peace for the rest of the game, signing a DP with Willem for some of it before he decided to declare on Washington as the space race was heating up.

I won the race to liberalism quite comfortably, taking astronomy since it was the most expensive tech available on the way to biology. Once the NP was in place, I could finally max out Nidaros at size 25, taking full advantage of Moai at long last. I built a factory and industrial park to help me farm a couple of GE in time to rush an important wonder:

Without aluminium and just one city to build the parts in, I decided the detour to robotics for the space elevator was well worth the beakers invested (and not just because mech infantry would give me a bit more security in an increasingly dangerous would). Once all 5 casings were complete, I launched with just one engine and thruster since that would get my ship to Alpha Centuri much quicker than delaying the launch until the other parts were built. Viking colonists blasted off in 1983:

Was the AI close?

Spoiler :

That'll be a "no" then. It doesn't really know how to handle maps like this, especially since colonies were introduced. Joao, Hannibal and Mehmed all invested a lot of time and effort into creating colonies that never did them any good in my game, which helped to slow the global tech rate and keep all the AI at a similar level of stagnation. I'd comfortably held the tech lead since getting civil service and only bothered with the internet for AI denial. Picking up representation to boost my settled great people helped to give my economy a shot in the arm in the midgame, whilst the AI didn't get much of a late game boost due to the large number of unimprovable water tiles they were working on this map.

There was one more reason for them being a bit slow:

For once, I hadn't instigated any of that - they were doing quite a good job of fighting amongst themselves.

And finally, a peak at Nidaros:

Spoiler :

Thanks for hosting this game Bleys.

 

[Bleys]

OK, now it seems that Mehmed, that final pick, is the odd-man-out, with only 1 player? Hmm, I dont want to play Jaoa now, because I have too much pre-knowledge from that test of the ice-bound coastal city, so I think I will play Mehmed. I seriously need a break from that crazy 18 civ Genghis Khan RPC madscientist put up, LOL, its my first "more than normal" type of game, and I am kinda hooked hard, but it gets to me some, LOL. So I will play Mehmed myself, Monarch, Epic speed.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Gotta love playing the least-played civs! Are we at 2 in a row now? I hope you like his start .

 

[Geoffroy]

I finished my Willem game. Computer crashed after closing the game, so no screenshots here.

Willem, Prince +, Epic. Domination victory in 1908 AD.

Spoiler :

In the first segment I got the GLH and the Oracle (MC) and that costed me some good cities to Mehmet, who claimed most of our common landmass. That had to change!

I settled and connected a city by the Jumbos, great move! With Jumbo's, cats and some swords, I managed to fight my way to Istanbul. I took a short peace to regroup and upgrade the swords to maces and finished Mehmet off.

Isabella build the darned AP, but Joao won the election. It was hindu, and I was afraid that he might win an diplo, as everyone had hindu cities, except Hannibal, who was running theocracy. Oh, I took Carthage too as I was bored and it had some nice wonders (Great Lib) and settled specs.

After winning Liberalism (astronomy) and beelining rifles, I moved my Trebs and Rifles to Madrid (East Indiamen rule!!) and quickly finished off Isabella, who was cramped between Joao and Washington.

By that time, there were a lot of colonies: Joao founded Hatty and Kublay. Washington founded Lincoln, Hannibal put Hammurabi and Ragnar gave Victoria a shot.

While I was choosing my next victim, Joao decided for me by a nice DOW. Thank you very much, I cleared him off his landmass and took peace. Then I went on to take Hatty and Kubilay. After a second peace I finished Joao and Hatty.

Meanwhile all of my original cities were pumping cannons, rifles and East Indiamen, with the odd wonder and some money buildings. Ragnar and Hannibal were pleased with me, so I took on the Americans. Lincoln was toast, and Washington capitulated after I took some cities.

I was well over the pop limit for dom, but still had to take more land. I killed Vicky (who broke loose of Ragnar), and then dowed on hannibal and Hammurabi. After Hammurabi died, Hannibal capitulated VERY Quickly. I guess he realised his muskets wouldn't be of any use against my Infantry/Artillery/Destroyers. That was the final push, enough to seal a domination victory without having to fight Ragnar.

Going for the Oracle might have been a mistake, as it slowed my REXing a lot, and building an army to take Mehmet took too long.

I could also have won an AP victory (way sooner), but that's just cheesy.

Fun game!

 

[Bleys]

Gotta love playing the least-played civs! Are we at 2 in a row now? I hope you like his start .

Heh, yeah, seems you and I are a couple of "Road Not Taken" guys, eh TM.

My thoughts on his start are here, in my first report:

Mehmed, Monarch, Epic, 4000 - 300 BC:

Spoiler :

I generally wait a while to play my PYL games, because I do check the maps out for any problems. Plus, I like to play the ones that get the least support, and this month it was Mehmed, the only leader in the pack who doesnt start with Fishing or have a water-oriented UU or UB. His traits, however, are definitely 2 of the better "Water map" traits, with a number of valuable building discounts, and ORG for that sprawled out REXed type of Empire you tend to see in these types of game.

The start was odd. I would REALLY have liked to move my settler to the Plains Hill, so I could have room for a city on top of the stone that is on another island to the North. But I would have lost TONS of food, so in the end, I decided to settle in place, since it gave me 4 seafood (2 fish, 2 clams), as well as Wheat, and 3 forested hills (1 plains, 2 grass). I sent my warrior off to seek out AIs and huts, while I teched Fishing and built a worker. I figured worker first, then Mining, BW, Myst for culture, then Sailing and Masonry with the intention of building the Holy Grail of maps like this, The Great Lighthouse. A truly amazing (and borderline broken, to be honest) Wonder that can single-handedly win you games right up to Immortal. Right away, I noticed 3 or 4 settlable islands in my immediate area, so I felt like getting the GLH = a win.

My warrior didnt pop anything special on the huts he found. One hostile (gave me some XP killing the warrior), a map, and some coin. No luck on the techs, sigh, oh well. With all that seafood in the cap, I decided a full-blown Slavery Based FE/TRE was in order here, so I whipped out the first Work Boat, and made 2 more before I even made a 2nd Warrior. 2 of the boats settled seafood tiles, while the 3rd went island-exploring. My own island is a snakey thing with 1 other AI, Willem, but I had an idea choke point for my 2nd city, which would grab Gold and 3 Elephants. Using the techniques much like MC-1 (and mastered very strongly by Vale, read his strat article, its killer), I was able to do an amazing amount of production while building settlers, workers, and the GLH. I had no trouble at all getting it, pretty early too, 1125 BC:

I also settled my gold-ele spot, and another spot SE of that, getting Rice and more ele's. I think I have the Ivory Market cornered, which is killer since I love keeping the SoZ out of the hands of the AIs. War is going to be hard enough without that thing killing my War Weariness.

After Masonry, I teched Hunting so I could hook up the Ele's. Gold + Eles would give me a nice happy boost until I could get the Mids or HR. With hunting, I also built 2 galleys and 2 scouts and went hut-popping on the neighboring islands. Now THAT really paid off. First one gave me Archery (forgot the screenie) and the next 2 gave me 2 more great techs, AH and HRB. Awesome, since I have horses in my "area".

However, while I was getting lucky on the huts, I didnt have such good luck on the Event side. Here is a screen of the turn-log after I finished the GLH:

. . . note the "We will bear the brunt of the Massive Uprising". Argh, 4 barb spears by my 3rd city. Luckily, I had already built some Archers, so I whipped out a few more and was able to save all my cities and improvements. Got some nasty whip anger and lost some units, but its all good now.

I also tried to pull a "move" to get that stone to the north of my cap. I ferried a worker over, and he built a quarry and a road on it. I also put a city on that landmass, with 2 seafood and Incense in its BFC.

But I cant build the road past the peak, so I dont get access to the stone. Bummer, I was thinking Mids with it. I have another stone on my "carved out area" so I will have it for future stone-wonders, and maybe even Walls and Castles. But the Mids is out. I dont mind, I want to be making as many settler/archer combos as I can and shipping them all over, since they practically pay for themselves out of the box with the GLH.

I also grabbed Confu (self teched CoL) and IW (Iron in gold-ele city BFC, SWEET since I had no Copper). I am looking for Copper, for Colossus possibility, but I have explored a lot and none is in sight. Not worried, I am in great shape to REX, whack out Granaries, Lighthouses, Courthouses and Harbors (teching Compass as well speak just for the Harbors). Here are some Empire looks, I shouldnt have a problem at all.

 

[Geoffroy]

Did anyone here not build the Great Lighthouse?

 

[Bleys]

Did anyone here not build the Great Lighthouse?

I doubt it. If you only built a single wonder the WHOLE game, the GLH would be it. I cannot make settlers fast enough to get my science slider below 60%, not kidding, especially with the cheap Courthouses from ORG. I am a mile ahead of the rest of the AIs in techs. Of course, my military sucks, and I have whip-anger everywhere, because I have 4 buildings I want before units in every city, heh, but I got enough to keep the wolves at bay.

 

[Bandobras Took]

I didn't. I deliberately avoided it. Took the AI long enough to build it.