Pyramids can be built only on desert tiles

[TheMeInTeam]

I see no fundamental difference between that and being unable to rush a certain troop type if a resource is absent (Civ 4, and even more so Civ 3).

And it was broken in some situations. Resource balance in civ IV was egregious (didn't play much 3). The AI didn't abuse it, but a player with significantly faster resource hookup could pillage you to death uncontested with relatively little resource investment, instant game over. Was civ V worse off for lacking an RNG instant game over in 1v1 type scenarios?

You are right to point out that previous entries in the series had examples of what I'm saying, which is why I'm concerned in the first place. Early game potential for luck-screws in IV was its worst balanced aspect (same goes for disparate combat RNG there vs any other period in the game).

Wonders vs resources in IV changed their cost equation a lot (sometimes it was worth building with resource but not without), so you had a decision on your hands there, more depth than V in that regard, but not huge regardless.

If they're implementing mechanics that mirror the design flaws of previous games, the question becomes "why go backwards?". I'm hoping they avoid that pitfall.

I actually like the idea that techs that enable a given wonder are not automatically going to have value regardless of the map.

That's not been the case in the past two civs already.

 

[Spartan_X]

The pyramids are indeed on the desert now - or at least, they were until the last century, now Giza is more like a suburb of Cairo - but ... when they were built the place wasn't a desert, right? I'm not sure, but I remember reading that ancient Egypt, at the time the pyramids were built, was much more fertile than how it is looking today.

 

[stealth_nsk]

And it was broken in some situations. Resource balance in civ IV was egregious (didn't play much 3). The AI didn't abuse it, but a player with significantly faster resource hookup could pillage you to death uncontested with relatively little resource investment, instant game over. Was civ V worse off for lacking an RNG instant game over in 1v1 type scenarios?

Terrain type is not resource, it's distributed much more equal. And Wonders aren't as necessary as access to key unit types. Even if something bad happens (and on 1v1 scenarios it may really happen), it will not break the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Terrain type is not resource, it's distributed much more equal.

Maybe in VI, maybe not. V made terrain a lot closer to equal than IV. If you claim this for IV I will shoot that notion down .

And Wonders aren't as necessary as access to key unit types.

Less game breaking flaws doesn't change that there is a design flaw, if it turns out to be the case. It does change the scale of the damage to meaningful choices, but less bad is still bad.

I don't anticipate this change will have game breaking impact like "3 skirmishers pillage your pig resource, roads, and farms before you can possibly get metal". However, I can easily envision something on the order of "your consideration of whether or not you build wonders is similar to before, but the game has made most of the choices for you already".

That's especially true if the wonders become more safe or their bonuses overwhelm alternative investments within the new framework.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Less game breaking flaws doesn't change that there is a design flaw, if it turns out to be the case. It does change the scale of the damage to meaningful choices, but less bad is still bad.

Each decision has pluses and minuses. I see significant bonuses in this approach and it seems to fit the rest of the game nicely as we see it. The disadvantage of sometimes not having actual wonder race on 1v1 maps looks too small to me.

 

[bite]

From a gameplay perspective, giving people relay choices to chose from is a really good idea, do I want to spend my precious uranium of Nuclear reactors, nukes or death robots, I like more of that

 

[HisDivineShadow]

Part of the mystery of Stonehenge is that at least some of the stones were probably transported from as far away as southern Wales. Why should you have to build it 'near stone'?

The smaller blue stones were transported from Wales. The much larger sarsens came from within 25 miles.

 

[Bandobras Took]

Ah, not liking the potential to be as broken as earlier games in the series is understandable.

I just think it's worth remembering that being screwed by the map is a fine and long-standing tradition in the Civ series.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I just think it's worth remembering that being screwed by the map is a fine and long-standing tradition in the Civ series.

Hear Hear!

 

[Inexist]

Somehow, every small tidbit of info is making me less pessimistic. Civ is supposed to put you in control, but the devs are beginning to take that away... Is civ not about being able to be a pacifist pyramid-building Shaka of the Zulu? The notion that civ should have more "historical or geographic accuracy" completely ignored the fact that the premise of the series is changing history, building your own story, even if that means the pyramids of giza in the tundra. Limiting player choices simply means that the game gets more repetitive, more predictable and just promotes rerolling starts. -_-

 

[Bandobras Took]

just promotes rerolling starts. -_-

Is this one of those "infinity plus one" questions?

 

[King William I]

Somehow, every small tidbit of info is making me less pessimistic. Civ is supposed to put you in control, but the devs are beginning to take that away... Is civ not about being able to be a pacifist pyramid-building Shaka of the Zulu? The notion that civ should have more "historical or geographic accuracy" completely ignored the fact that the premise of the series is changing history, building your own story, even if that means the pyramids of giza in the tundra. Limiting player choices simply means that the game gets more repetitive, more predictable and just promotes rerolling starts. -_-

Strange, I think it makes the game more random and unpredictable. Will I be able to build the Pyramids? Should I go for a science or religion game. You won't know until start the game. But then again I (almost) never reroll. Don't move the starting settler either

 

[Thormodr]

Ah, not liking the potential to be as broken as earlier games in the series is understandable.

I just think it's worth remembering that being screwed by the map is a fine and long-standing tradition in the Civ series.

Indeed.

 

[Civrules]

tl;dr

evidence points to clues that tell us the climate was very different when the great pyramid was built - in other words, it was not a desert.

 

[StrideColossus]

Personally I think this is a great approach - the developers have stated that they want to make players react to the geographical environment rather than just following the 'optimal' path in every game.

Hopefully that means we will have to consider and target which wonders we aim for rather than just wonder-whoring or recipe-following.

Although this could make OCC challenging

 

[Stilgar08]

and another way to make placement decisions more challenging