Pyramids overpowered

[TomOC]

Are the pyramids the next great library? I find when I get the Pyramids, that I can get ahead in techs with very little effort. The Government civics bonus that early in the game seems almost overpowered.

I am not an expert player ... I am on the prince level. But my last game I missed the Pyramids and could not catch up in techs.

Now in my most recent game, when I got the Pyramids, I moved my goverment civic up to representation. It keeps the money flowing in, thus allowing me to out research the AI. With a little careful trading it is easy.

Just throwing this out to see what others think.

T~

 

[Carewolf]

Well, not only is it overpowered, but it is also extremely silly. I would prefer if it just gave a free granary in every city.

"Fortunately" it is so early that a human player is no practical chance to get it on higher difficulties.

 

[Dairuka]

"Fortunately" it is so early that a human player is no practical chance to get it on higher difficulties.

I can get it 80% of the time on Immortal Difficulty. 100% of the time if I'm playing either India, or China.

It's not overpowered either, it's uses are limited. Representation is wonderful, but it won't propel you well above the enemy AI's in technology. Especially on the harder difficulties.

Police State is great for Warmongers; but I've rarely had issues with War Weariness in the early game. The military production bonus is pretty darn powerful though.

 

[alexti2]

It's not that hard to get Pyramids on deity. For some reason, AI doesn't seem to be in a hurry to get them. Whether it's worthwhile to spend so much time building them early on is another question. With industrious and stone it's no brainer. With only one of industrious or stone, I'm not sure. With none it takes too much time to be worthwhile

 

[Ranos]

In Civ and Civ 2, the Pyramids allowed you acces to all government choices. Someone in developing Civ 3 decided they didn't like it or that it was overpowered and changed it to give a grainery in every city. I guess enough people complained which is why it was changed back for Civ 4. The problem is that it is even more overpowered now because of the inclusion of civics.

There are plenty of other things the pyramids could do. They could give +1 or +2 to your relations with other civs (they are so impressed by this monumental acheivement). They could increase the number of trade routes to the city they are built in or in all your cities (people coming from all over to marvel at the great buildings and bringing their goods with them). There are plenty of other options.

 

[lysander]

In Civ and Civ 2, the Pyramids allowed you acces to all government choices. Someone in developing Civ 3 decided they didn't like it or that it was overpowered and changed it to give a grainery in every city. I guess enough people complained which is why it was changed back for Civ 4. The problem is that it is even more overpowered now because of the inclusion of civics.

There are plenty of other things the pyramids could do. They could give +1 or +2 to your relations with other civs (they are so impressed by this monumental acheivement). They could increase the number of trade routes to the city they are built in or in all your cities (people coming from all over to marvel at the great buildings and bringing their goods with them). There are plenty of other options.

Pyramids did not give you all government choices in civ2, they gave you a granery in every city. The statue of liberty gave you all government choices.

 

[Ranos]

Pyramids did not give you all government choices in civ2, they gave you a granery in every city. The statue of liberty gave you all government choices.

So it was Civ 1 that gave you all government choices. Its been quite a while since I played Civ 2 so I was basing off of what I remembered.

 

[Ex-Cop]

lysander u beat me to it. Pyramids in Civ 2 were better than in Civ 1, for the style my frinds and I played. We often called Civ2 M'player games we played "race to pyramids".

 

[ajcardall]

While I like the governmental civics becoming available early in the game, I think at such an early stage in the game, the granary in every city could be more beneficial for expansion and for growth? Granary is one of - after a strong defensive force - things I build in a city. I've not checked precisely the effect of a granary, but I assume it is the same as in previous civilizations where it halves population growth time...?

 

[countzero]

While I like the governmental civics becoming available early in the game, I think at such an early stage in the game, the granary in every city could be more beneficial for expansion and for growth? Granary is one of - after a strong defensive force - things I build in a city. I've not checked precisely the effect of a granary, but I assume it is the same as in previous civilizations where it halves population growth time...?

yes it does, and it gives some health bonus for some food (wheat, corn, rice)

 

[Tavenier]

I don't think piramids are overpowered. If I get the chance to build them I will, but that goes for many others too. I rather go for the Oracle to get a new religion. I do find the great engineers very handy. That is a more important reason for me to build them then the civics.

 

[Doppelgänger50]

If anything's overpowered about the Pyramids, it's the Great Engineer points they give you. You normally have no way of getting those until you build forges. If you're playing a philosophical civ, it's pretty easy to grab another early wonder with almost zero effort. Great Library is a nice combo, since you get +6 science from those free specialists with Representation.

 

[narmox]

And while you're building the pyramids I'll build a big army and take it from you soon as you're done!

As with everything else in civ4, it seems the balance is always there, that if you focus too much on one thing you'll fall behind in others...

 

[Tholomeo]

I agree, pyramids are overpowered, because univ.suffrage is overpowered! Why on earth can't I spend money to hurry something if I have other government? That is divinely unrealistic!!!

On emperor, with Gandhi and stone resource, I lost my race for pyramids, even though I initially shifted my research to be able to build them asap.

 

[CyberChrist]

And while you're building the pyramids I'll build a big army and take it from you soon as you're done!

No you wont, because I will switch to Police State once the Pyramids are build and gain a 25% production bonus to military units - so I will catch up soon and laugh as your cities start rebelling due to WW that I wont have because I generate WW at half the rate you do - heh.

 

[zafyro]

We can make a calculation of ho many axemen can one build instead fo dedicating a city to build the piramids. Startin a wonder as big as that early can damage a bit your economy. If you´re industrialist and have stone it´s a diferent hing [it´s a must going for piramids] but anyway i don´t see so much diference. Monarchy is no sohard to get and representation is not so big deal if you have more than the cities it improves and need the happiness. And univ suffrage is not a big deal until you have some cities to work with.

 

[narmox]

No you wont, because I will switch to Police State once the Pyramids are build and gain a 25% production bonus to military units - so I will catch up soon and laugh as your cities start rebelling due to WW that I wont have because I generate WW at half the rate you do - heh.

Your cities will be mine before you get that far! And my dad can beat your dad! lol

 

[Oggums]

I agree that the Pyramids are powerful. But overpowered? Then why do I wind up going for Oracle -> Code of Laws in most games?

Unless I have an Industrious civ, I will rarely go for it. Too many hammers for most situations, that will wind up crippling your early development too much to bounce back from once it's done.

 

[Tholomeo]

And univ suffrage is not a big deal until you have some cities to work with.

I always switch to suffrage the very turn I have it available. I really suffer when I can't hurry production.

 

[Ladasaguy]

I don't find myself missing the hurry production option very much in C-IV becuase far flung cities can actually build things on their own. Taking out corruption was one of the best changes they made. Plus, I usually don't have the money to hurry things anyway.

I have never built the pyramids, so I can't weight in on that, but it seems like a good benefit for the high cost.