Spartan117
Immortal
it should turn the plot to desert the water plot provides fresh water
good work
good work
[PYTHONCOM] MAD Nukes Mod
- Thread starter TheLopez
- Start date
HotblackDesiato
Chieftain
I've been very disappointed with the game's use of nukes. I don't, however, think they should completely wipe out a city. Both Nagasaki and Hiroshima are large, functioning cities today.
Based on some quick reference, it looks like about 30% of the population of Hiroshima died immediately with more dying afterwards due to the aftereffects, and 80% of the city was destroyed. Perhaps a sizeable population/military hit (some units completely destroyed, others considerably weakened), plus most of the nearby improvements, and a lasting negative health effect would be most realistic.
I don't want excessively weak nukes, but I'd personally prefer the game's implementation rather than such excessively devastating nukes (leaving a square of water?? It doesn't destroy the earth itself!).
The other main component to a nukes mod, and I don't know anything about implementing this, is a diplomacy effect. I don't want to go so far as to say the AI will not declare war on a civ that has nukes, but it should be something close to it to simulate MAD standoffs. The US never did battle with Russia. It wasn't until 1999 with India and Pakistan that two nuclear nations actually went to war with each other, and it's much more fitting to call it a "conflict" than a "war."
There should be an automatic setting that any nukes launched against a nuclear nation will be returned in kind (I'd say to the city they were launched from, but that would encourage launching nukes from your smallest/weakest city, so maybe they should just be lobbed at the capital). I don't think that even needs to be left up to the player to retaliate.
I hope you'll keep working on this mod. In my opinion, the lack of effectiveness of nukes is one of the game's biggest shortcomings.
Based on some quick reference, it looks like about 30% of the population of Hiroshima died immediately with more dying afterwards due to the aftereffects, and 80% of the city was destroyed. Perhaps a sizeable population/military hit (some units completely destroyed, others considerably weakened), plus most of the nearby improvements, and a lasting negative health effect would be most realistic.
I don't want excessively weak nukes, but I'd personally prefer the game's implementation rather than such excessively devastating nukes (leaving a square of water?? It doesn't destroy the earth itself!).
The other main component to a nukes mod, and I don't know anything about implementing this, is a diplomacy effect. I don't want to go so far as to say the AI will not declare war on a civ that has nukes, but it should be something close to it to simulate MAD standoffs. The US never did battle with Russia. It wasn't until 1999 with India and Pakistan that two nuclear nations actually went to war with each other, and it's much more fitting to call it a "conflict" than a "war."
There should be an automatic setting that any nukes launched against a nuclear nation will be returned in kind (I'd say to the city they were launched from, but that would encourage launching nukes from your smallest/weakest city, so maybe they should just be lobbed at the capital). I don't think that even needs to be left up to the player to retaliate.
I hope you'll keep working on this mod. In my opinion, the lack of effectiveness of nukes is one of the game's biggest shortcomings.
Agent 009
Civ 4 Addict
yeah you are right, however, those were atomic bombs. Not Nukes.
The nukes portrayed in Civ 4 are nuclear warheads, which are capable of obliterating a city. The two bombs that hit those two cities were equivelant to 20000 tons of TNT.
The nukes we have today are more near the equivelant of 50 000 000 tons of TNT. This is what the nukes in Civ 4 are meant to be like.
So, I doubt any city could survive a blast like that.
The nukes portrayed in Civ 4 are nuclear warheads, which are capable of obliterating a city. The two bombs that hit those two cities were equivelant to 20000 tons of TNT.
The nukes we have today are more near the equivelant of 50 000 000 tons of TNT. This is what the nukes in Civ 4 are meant to be like.
So, I doubt any city could survive a blast like that.
Osymandias
Grand King of Apes
the hiroshima-bomb had around 15kTs tnt-equivalent, modern bombs are minimum 10times it. so with a modern bomb hiroshima wouldn't be anymore.
but how about that: if a bomb hits a size 1 city, then this city gets destroyed. so you can bomb a size 20 city to 1 and then destroy it. of course you will need a great amount of nukes, but its more realistic.
the waterhole is unrealistic in my mind.
for diplomacy it would be cool, if you can demand a nuclear disarmament from your rival or he from you. same with the un-resolution. example: all will reduce their nuclear units by 30% until the next 5 turns or lose 3 trade-routes per city for 20 truns.(example for un-res)
how about a option that allows you to aim at possibly enemy targets? like in the ctp-series. there you could aim your icbms at enemy cities and when the enemy fires only 1 nuke at you, then all of your at his cities aimed nukes will start for retaliation. i realy miss this. but for this feature the ai should also build nukes, which it doesn't in 1.61....
but how about that: if a bomb hits a size 1 city, then this city gets destroyed. so you can bomb a size 20 city to 1 and then destroy it. of course you will need a great amount of nukes, but its more realistic.
the waterhole is unrealistic in my mind.
for diplomacy it would be cool, if you can demand a nuclear disarmament from your rival or he from you. same with the un-resolution. example: all will reduce their nuclear units by 30% until the next 5 turns or lose 3 trade-routes per city for 20 truns.(example for un-res)
how about a option that allows you to aim at possibly enemy targets? like in the ctp-series. there you could aim your icbms at enemy cities and when the enemy fires only 1 nuke at you, then all of your at his cities aimed nukes will start for retaliation. i realy miss this. but for this feature the ai should also build nukes, which it doesn't in 1.61....
i think this was the tzar-bomb. it was only a soviet demonstration of power. regular nukes have *only* between 150...200kTs to 800kTs (french bomb), but in comparision to the hiroshima- (~15kT) and nagasaki-bomb (~25kT) they're not less dangerous.Agent 009 said:
The Great Apple
Big Cheese
Quick question - what does the Great Options mod do? It's name is rather cryptic.
Fair enough dude. It does look like you've got a lot on your plate at the moment!
If you figure out how to get the AI to use nukes more effectively, please don't keep it a secret! I'd happily mod it myself, but I haven't been able to figure out what to change.
Anyways, cheers for the great work
If you figure out how to get the AI to use nukes more effectively, please don't keep it a secret! I'd happily mod it myself, but I haven't been able to figure out what to change.
Anyways, cheers for the great work
Thorn
King
TheLopez said:
UN Enhancement Mod! This is the best news since the expansion pack was announced
Admiral118
Chieftain
I'm doing my graduate work in nuclear combat strategy from the Eighties.
In CIV, nukes should be broken down into three categories to be realistic.
ATOMIC BOMBS
Basically, the nukes Civ has always had. 50% damage to the targetted tile. However, the damage should be confined to that tile. Units and improvements in the adjoining squares should be unharmed. There should be two units with atomic bombs. One, literally the atomic bomb, should have a range equal to the bomber unit and some small chance of interception. The other, an atomic missile, should have substantial range and no chance of interception.
NUCLEAR BOMB
This would be a new unit. It should devastate the tile it's used on. All units destroyed. All buildings destroyed. All improvements destroyed. If used on a city, it should be a 90% populatation loss. I suggest the following formula:
Cities between 1 and 9 should be erased.
Cities between 10 and 19 should be reduced to 2.
Cities between 20 and 29 should be reduced to 3.
And so on...
Adjacent tiles should take 30% damage.
Should be deliverable by long-range bomber, or ICBM, with infinite range.
TACTICAL NUKE
Does the same damage as an atomic bomb, but is very cheap and has a very short range.
Cities destroyed by nukes should become some new terrain type. I proposed the terrain be called "Wasteland" and should be unpassable. The graphics should be ruins. Maybe, just for fun, the ruins should glow a little.
Is it possible to modify how fallout works?
In CIV, nukes should be broken down into three categories to be realistic.
ATOMIC BOMBS
Basically, the nukes Civ has always had. 50% damage to the targetted tile. However, the damage should be confined to that tile. Units and improvements in the adjoining squares should be unharmed. There should be two units with atomic bombs. One, literally the atomic bomb, should have a range equal to the bomber unit and some small chance of interception. The other, an atomic missile, should have substantial range and no chance of interception.
NUCLEAR BOMB
This would be a new unit. It should devastate the tile it's used on. All units destroyed. All buildings destroyed. All improvements destroyed. If used on a city, it should be a 90% populatation loss. I suggest the following formula:
Cities between 1 and 9 should be erased.
Cities between 10 and 19 should be reduced to 2.
Cities between 20 and 29 should be reduced to 3.
And so on...
Adjacent tiles should take 30% damage.
Should be deliverable by long-range bomber, or ICBM, with infinite range.
TACTICAL NUKE
Does the same damage as an atomic bomb, but is very cheap and has a very short range.
Cities destroyed by nukes should become some new terrain type. I proposed the terrain be called "Wasteland" and should be unpassable. The graphics should be ruins. Maybe, just for fun, the ruins should glow a little.
Is it possible to modify how fallout works?
Agent 009
Civ 4 Addict
Those are some great ideas Admiral.
It would certainly add some realism to the game.
It would certainly add some realism to the game.
Spartan117
Immortal
nukes that turn tile into water is not realistic... then there will be fresh water where it was at providing health bonus to future cities built near there..
it should just turn the tile to desert rendering the tile useless...
by the way
great job on all your mod components
it should just turn the tile to desert rendering the tile useless...
by the way
great job on all your mod components
Jeckel
Great Reverend
The type of tile a nuke turns the square into is configurable in the MAD Nukes Mod Config.ini file, I changed mine to desert and should be simple enough for others to do so.
That is correct, you can change the tile into any type of terrain that is in the game. This means if a new terrain is added, i.e. nuke strike terrain, all you would need to do is change the configuration file to use it. Its that simple .
.Spartan117
Immortal
thanks will remember
I will provide some ideas for Neutron and Tactical weapons.
The Neutron bomb will kill most of the population, leave all buildings standing. Armored units will take some damage and unarmored units will die.
Tactical nukes will kill off a small percentage of people and damage/destroy a few buildings and units. A cheaper alternative to shattering a city.
I also suggest making the ICBM weapons remove culture to really soften up a city.
The Neutron bomb will kill most of the population, leave all buildings standing. Armored units will take some damage and unarmored units will die.
Tactical nukes will kill off a small percentage of people and damage/destroy a few buildings and units. A cheaper alternative to shattering a city.
I also suggest making the ICBM weapons remove culture to really soften up a city.
If I set the option to NOT completely destroy the city, does it use the vanilla values or some other values?
Same question for the units destroyed. Is it either all units destroyed, the vanilla numbers or some new set of numbers?
(I, too, have some worries that the mod is a bit too extreme, while the vanilla version is too weak.)
Same question for the units destroyed. Is it either all units destroyed, the vanilla numbers or some new set of numbers?
(I, too, have some worries that the mod is a bit too extreme, while the vanilla version is too weak.)
