Qsc20-Spain Results & Strategy Discussion

cracker

Gil Favor's Sidekick
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Today we can announce the results for Qsc20-Spain and extend our congratulations and thanks to all the players who submitted games.

We received 95 total submissions for this QSC game even on the various intensities of Deity level and yielded 93 scorable games.

Our top 10 QSC finishers played very strong games that demonstrated the focused on expansion, population growth, and exploration.

Code:
Rank  Version  Class    Player
1	p114	open	Snaga
2	129	open	Qitai
3	p114	open	Ambiorix
4	p121	pred	DaveMcW
5	p121	open	acivguy
6	p121	open	Alexman
7	p121	pred	SirPleb
8	p121	open	Smirk
9	p121	conq	mr_ego
10	p121	conq	dianthus

Qitai had an amazing population of 52 citizens and 29 workers gainfully employed.

You will need to download the scoring worksheet for this QSC to look closely at how the scores for the Conquest, Open, and Predator Class games were woven together to provide a consolidated picture of overal player performance. The total value of the extra Conquest Class starting bonuses was 1,110 points in terms of raw boost that was given to all Conquest Class players. The Predator class players had to overcome a 372 point deficit compared to open class players in order to make up for the differential of one technology, cash, and barbarian encounters.

General Improvement at Every Level of Play
One thing that we want to be sure and notice is that we see broad indications of improvement in player skill as well as the level of comfort that players express with some very challenging game situations. We have at least 3 times as many players playing games at a comfortably competent level of play compared to where we were just six months ago. This is fantastic to be in such great company and makes a placement in the top 50% of any event truly and honarable result that any play can be proud of.

Here is a link to the complete set of Qsc20-Spain results web pages:

Qsc20 Results and Data Tables

We also want to prepare you for a number of truly fantastic and exciting anouncements that will release special utilities and game viewers to you during the next 30 days. In the background, a numebr of dedicated programming volunteers including dianthus, spiderzord, and ainwood have been working overtime to build some unbelievable new tools that will help all of us to better understand how the game is played by looking at play choices of literally hundreds of different games all in a summarized graphic or data overview format.

Here is a sample image produced from one of the early beta versions of one of these utilities that shows a composite map overlay of every spanish city location built during the QSC games.



This early image clearly shows the settler preferences on the hill or the original start position with a strong secondary preference for the location that was dead center between the dyes and wheat due south of the starting location.

Other hot spots show up to the left of the dyes on or near the iron hill, to the east on the inlands sea coast next to where the ivory was located and the in a nice string of features that trailed off to the northeast to control the cows, horses and furs.

Image data like this can be used to demonstrate broad general trends that may make it easier for players to see some of the key game play choices that are being made by lots of the regularly successful players in the Qsc and GOTM games.
 
One issue that was raised in considerable debate during the pre-game discussion was the issue of how a sequence of two 40 turn minimum research gambits plus an opening settler move of 1 square would miss the QSC cutoff date by one turn. This game clearly shows examples where it is possible to do much better than just the two 40 turn research gambits by maximizing the benefits of your commercial power and taking advantage of early trade brokering opportunities. The tech leaders in this game were clearly well beyond any expected limits of the two 40 turn research gambits and all through the power of aggressive tech trading and back brokering.

I know cracker believes this, but I think he's mistaken. I did two 40-turn researches (in fact, I did 3), and my results weren't any worse than the leaders, except that I needed one extra turn to get there. Unfortunately I wasn't able to submit my QSC20 (I was on vacation for much of the month, and didn't have access to my machine by the time the deadline came), but if I'm computing correctly, my 975BC score would have been 8278, just about the same as the leaders who may have used other strategies.

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/DaviddesJ_GOTM20_bc975.SAV

I'll be the first to admit that I had some luck in my 40-turn research, but it's just not true that the leaders did "much better" than I did.
 
"Qitai had an amazing population of 52 citizens and 29 workers gainfully employed."

Wow! That is not simply amazing its otherworldly. I'll for sure go to school on that timeline. I have a feeling that Qitai has an ace up his sleeve and I am going to find out which arm. Perhaps there is some element inherent in 1.29 that works differently that he is using?

I mean, damn. Thats outstanding.

:thumbsup: Qitai!

My grandpa taught me you could beat 95% of your competition by hard work and experience but that the other 5% represents the talent, which you get from God and you might as well accept the fact that you ain't got it. Qitai has it for sure.

But the neat thing about the QSC is with a little work we should be able to figure out his tricks.

52 pops and 29 workers! Man, I am trippin out on that.
 
Wow, the results out this quick? Great work cracker and staff! :goodjob:

I'll be reading the timelines very closely, especially those of qitai (he already got one MA tech? And 29 workers? Wow) and DaveMcW, who was obviously already well underway for his amazing win....
 
Man, I thought I did better this QSC. Well at least it wasn't last place like the previous one. [But in QSC21 I have no doubt that last place will be mine by a mile]

Congrats to all the leaders and to everyone would had the guts to submit regardless of performance. I look forward to studying some of these timelines (well, I'd better do something and quick)!

In retrospect, building early cities on the two land bridges before building a line W to E across the Southern edge of territory would probably have kept more foreign settlers out. Very few ppl did that, though.

Dianthus did a fantastic job of creating new utilities that provide very useful information (and patiently put up with my 100s of questions). It is now possible to view in Excel the x,y coordinates of every city built by every player and to see this graphical (soon to be released). He's also working on several other improvements. As Cracker said, when this (and other programs) are completed and released you will be amazed. Two QSCs ago we presented a map that showed where everyone built their first and second city. It was a very tedious and time consuming task. The 3 city build map was a snap thanks to Dianthus. Soon, you'll be able to do the same thing for any of the players you want.

Xevious did a great job of combining the scripts we use in PaintShopPro8 to make the minimaps even faster. You may notice that they look a little better than before. That's because before we just used the sharpen command. I noticed one of the scipts that came with PSP8 is 'One Step Photo Fix'. It sharpens, smooths, auto-color balances, etc. Also, Xevious made the text larger for the small minimaps. When you click on these small ones, the larger ones open and they have the version and class on them, in addition to the name. Btw, if you notice a slight difference between these pics and the minimaps that show in the military advisor screen, it's because I sliced a few pixels off the left side and moved it to the right.

Of course none of this would be possible without the hard work from Cracker!


Download the Excel spreadsheet that lists the x,y coordinates, build date, and city count for every player:
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ruf20city.zip

Download all of the larger size minimaps (instead of clicking on each of the smaller ones on the QSC results page):
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/ruf20maps.zip
 
I am amaze of the performance of top players. I must look closely at their QSC in order to progress. I am still low on rankings
 
Originally posted by RufRydyr
Dianthus did a fantastic job of creating new utilities that provide very useful information (and patiently put up with my 100s of questions).
I ought to point out that in return for answering (almost literally!) 100s of questions, Ruf kindly beta tested CRpSettleLoc during a phase when it was crashing such that he had to reboot after using it! Thanks Ruf.

Originally posted by RufRydyr
As Cracker said, when this (and other programs) are completed and released you will be amazed.
Actually, CrpSettleLoc (the app used to generate cracker's screenshot) has already been released. It's bundled with my CivReplay stuff. See my sig for a link. I haven't included any docs yet. If you can't work out what to do then bug me in the CIVReplay thread or via PM!
 
I'm also really dissapointed with my standing. I though I did really well in this QSC. I had a pretty impressive 17 cities by the end, and was 6th biggest in terms of territory...

Analysing the results shows that if I had done some more intelligent tech trading, and got maybe 2 more techs, my performance would have been much better.

The other thing that let me down was the unhappy citizens.. I don't really care if they're unhappy myself, as long as they are working...

Can someone explain to me why you get 70 credit for a settler, and only 30 for a city?

Moan moan... must try harder...
 
I finally played a good early set of turns, but settled my capital in what turned out to be an unpopular spot. After moving the worker south, I moved the settler east. As it turns out, this gave me:

1. all I needed for a settler factory
2. more room for cities to the west, taking advantage of the capital
3. a separate powerhouse location to the north (where Barcelona was built)

The only downside I saw was the possibilty of disease, which did occur, but I was able to shrug it off, as I was fully irrigated by then.

What was it about the two most popular starting sites that made them more appealing than this one?

3800BC save
 
Txurce, by settling on the two popular spots, you can get 2 settler/worker factories going fairly early.
 
Thank you Cracker and GOTM team for another wonderful GOTM.:) Beautiful works on the timely result and all other enhancement including the new submission forms!:worship:

Congratulation to all, especially the top 40 players ranked above me!:goodjob: I thought I did very well but I thought wrong because there are 40 of you who did better than me. I have no regret on my game because I knew that I had done my best; you guys are just simply better, but I'm a fast learner so there may be a chance that I may surprise you some day. Once again, congratulation!:goodjob:
 
Cracker> Is there any chance that you might have missed my forbidden palace? I download the scoresheet and I can't find my forbidden palace factor into the score.
 
Congrats to all...especially the 30 of you above me. The competition is getting strong! Like moonsinger, I thought I did fairly well..only to find myself nowhere near the top 10! So it looks like i have a lot to learn ...also looks like some of the conquest players will now have to join the open ranks! ;)

..if only my suicide galley had made the new world 2 turns sooner..i would have scored over 1300 more points!
 
Originally posted by KELLO
The other thing that let me down was the unhappy citizens.. I don't really care if they're unhappy myself, as long as they are working...

You are not alone there.:lol: "Ask not what their leader can do for them, but what they can do for their country". The time for happiness will come later, but the first 5000 years are usually full of struggle for my civ.
 
Originally posted by acivguy
Txurce, by settling on the two popular spots, you can get 2 settler/worker factories going fairly early.

acivguy, that's what I ended up with, building Barcelona by the cattle just three tiles from Madrid.

It really looked to me like an ideal start, and it did allow me to build a ring around Madrid. While I didn't wind up with as excellent a start as you, I don't see my opening moves putting me behind the curve.

edit: my map link is now functioning.
 
I knew I did pretty well in the QSC, but yet here I am still in shock that I was #3 in conquest games and #12 overall. (The QSC for gotm21 is not going to be that kind to me.)

Just goes to show that luck can still play a factor in how things turn out in the game. I know there are still a lot of things that I can improve in my civ playing. (Finishing games would help too. :) )

As usual, thanks to all who make this such an awesome learning experience.

Forged
 
Cool. :crazyeye: Nice to come out on top, although I'll be the first to admit that a certain amount of luck came into it. I think my suicide galley success probably added around 1500 points to my QSC score, made up of gold, contacts and Construction. It would of been more, but the new world was fairly cash strapped and backwards.

I think wether the other civs happen to research the same techs can also have a significant impact on QSC score. In my game, even with 10 contacts, Monarchy, Republic and Currency weren't available for trade till well after 1000BC. Although, in fairness, this did leave me with a substantial stockpile of unspent gold.

I took a lot of time analyzing ahead on the opening moves for this game and it looks like it paid off. It's amazing how much advantage can be gained by tweaking citizen placement, build timing and worker orders.

I think Qitai nailed the best opening strategy though, with his initial granary build providing a superior growth rate. If his score has been messed up he may well end up with the best score too after adjusting for the forbidden palace. I built two settlers before starting a granary in Madrid, which rightly or wrongly I perceived as a "safer" opening strategy.

I also tried to avoid the flood plains as much as possible early on, but this turned out not to matter much, as there seemed to be a no disease or at least a reduced disease setting in this game. Can anyone confirm this, or were those of us that got no disease just lucky?

Respect to the predator players who made it into the QSC top 10. I think the bonus points given for predator difficulty in no way compensate for the extra penalty of having the raging barbs. If it wasn't for the barb setting I would have tried this game at predator. On the other hand, this month's predator settings with the modified galley movement look very appetizing.

BTW the link for S thru Z timelines is broken, the s and z should be lowercase in the URL.
 
I did forget to put Qitai's forbidden palace in his score but you have to recognize that the FP is scored based on its distance from the Palace. In this case, Qitai has built the FP right next door to his palace in expectation of doing a Jump that has not occurred yet, so the FP is only worth 30 points and hs no impact on his position placement at this time.
 
Wow! I'm surprised to find myself in the top half of the results at my first attempt. Congratulations to the leaders on your amazing results. :worship:

I suspect I didn't make as much of the Conquest bonuses as I should have done, with a poor second city placement on the coast, so I might actually have scored higher if I'd played Open. In any case, I've already committed to switch to Open for future games.

It's also interesting that I was placed in category 2 - swordsman. I was worried throughout the QSC period that I was not strong enough, and that Military advisor doesn't help, constantly harping on about how everyone else is stronger. So I invested in some cheap warriors to try to scare off the AI. I never did receive any demands from them, so maybe it worked. I actually used horses for all my real war-mongering when it did start, nearly all built after 1000 BC. My QSC score probably suffered a little from premature upgrading of my warriors to swords. I was not planning to use them in the near term unless a neighbor had declared war first, but I though the upgrades might help dissuade them.

Now I'll have to go back and learn some lessons from those awesome performances at the top of the QSC list, and then try to complete a GOTM.
 
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