Question about Empyrean

[iamdanthemansta]

I'm still pretty new to FfH but Empyrean seems much weaker than the other religions to me. It has some nice units but it lacks some of the more powerful bonuses that other religions seem to have.

 

[Korias]

One word: Chalid.

Chalid is the only reason to go Empy, as he is probably one of the strongest units in the game. Not to mention the ability to freeze entire stacks in their tracks with Blinding Light from Radiant Guards, these are two of the best units in the entire game that synergize with many civs. Empyrean is strong- and economically, they've got pretty good temples that give culture and research boosts, letting you get "Good" veil temples. All in all, a solid religion.

 

[Elyssaen]

Empyrean being the second worst religion after Council of Esus seems to be a common opinion here, but I don't understand it.

In Chalid Astrakein they have the best hero of all seven religions. +2 per Sun mana is a huge benefit and with only a little bit of focus, Chalid can be on the receiving end of >99.9% win chances in any fight he cares to get in. Pillar of Fire is brilliant – with him around, you won't have to fight cities with defenders with more than 25% of their health.

Running Empyrean is also the only way to be completely immune to nations backstabbing you with Hidden Nationality or using Invisible attackers. Their Vicars can cast Revelation every turn to destroy any nearby illusions and glamours of that nature. Did your enemy just spend 720 on a small strike force of three Shadows? Tough: you spent 120 on a Vicar.

If you've ever used Maelstrom, you'll know that it means you can never not use a stack of doom because otherwise you'll damage your own army. You'll also know that it does ~15% damage and has a 30% limit. While a Luridus is a little more difficult to get, they have twice the strength of a Mage and have Crown of Brilliance. How does it compare to Maelstrom? It doesn't hurt non-hostile and it does ~30% damage to a limit of 60%.

The Ashen Veil have Ring of Flames earlier, but it doesn't do as much damage and it will also hurt yourself. The Cultist's Tsunami is damn good but situational. The Empyrean come off about equal in divine area of effect damage, or better after considering Chalid's Pillar of Fire.

Also notice that no religion is as good at productivity as the Empyrean. Every Temple gives +20% , gives a resource happiness and allows two specialists. Also:

Temple of the Veil: +2
Temple of the Overlords: +3
Temple of Leaves: +1
Temple of Kilmorph: +2
Temple of the Empyrean: +10%
Temple of The Order: +10% Military Production, –5 to Crime Rate

I've put in red the only two that are massive, and it's clear that the Empyrean is better here as they get the Order's benefit – as well as +10% for Wonders, Rituals and Buildings.

Now okay, this has been a bit of an ad for them. I don't mean to say that they're absolutely the best religion, but with Chalid + Temple of the Empyrean they're very solid.

(As for the Council of Esus they probably aren't much use, although then again isn't the Shadowrider the best late game religious unit? I want to run the Hippus with Council of Esus so I can have shadow mana-empowered Shadowriders backing up the rest of my cavalry.)

 

[Monkeyfinger]

Temples of the empyrean were changed a few months back. They now boost , not . End result: they're better than AV temples in commerce cities and worse than AV temples in production/small cities.

 

[Elyssaen]

Well dammit. Empyrean is good if you don't update, then – I liked the +10% . I don't know if it's my version that's out of date, or just the manual I adore. Well… the manual it seems definitely is (I noticed a few other 'errors'). I'll check my version.

 

[Cupric Leane]

Also, your 4 luriduses are a lot like mini-Chalids; very powerful additions to your city-cracking teams.

I also second the blinding light that rathas bring to the table. They can flash and dash back to the safety of the stack on the hill from where your fireball mages can bombard them with flaming death to soften them up enough for other units to take out.


edit: oops, someone posted before I got this written

 

[Emptiness]

Chalid is the only reason to go Empy

I think that the ability to see enemy Shadows moving around in your territory (via Dies Diei) at least qualifies as a second reason.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I just use hunters and hawks

 

[Emptiness]

Hawks will certainly do the job, and are easier to get and also don't require founding a specific religion - but they require micromanagement. When possible, it's easier to just automatically see invisible units in your territory.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I think that the ability to see enemy Shadows moving around in your territory (via Dies Diei) at least qualifies as a second reason.

you just need the dies diei for that though, not Empy. same thing for the nox noctis. I love both even if I have a different state religion

 

[Rystic]

Temples of the Empyrean should give something like +20% . It really makes more sense than +10% .

 

[Emptiness]

you just need the dies diei for that though, not Empy. same thing for the nox noctis. I love both even if I have a different state religion

Okay, that's true. I guess it's a reason to found Empyrean rather than a reason to follow it.

 

[Tasunke]

+20% gpp does make more sense than +10% tech