Question about Reincarnation

[Mescalhead]

Originally posted by cgannon64
If the goal of reincarnation is to come back in the next life as a better person and keep on getting better until we reach Nirvana, how can we do this if we don't remember our past life? Do we become a better person subconciously?

Oh, and what are some good books on eastern religious...I've realized I know absolutely nothing about them and my Catholic education is the worse for it.

In Therevada the goal is to break off from reincarnation. Recognizing that reality is simply an illusion, and further recognizing that where the world ends and you begin is arbitrary.
You must become emotionally non-attached to the "maya" -or outside world- and must realize that whatever state you are in, you are already enlightened. Enlightenemnt is not something to attain, but something to realize. Simply, banish any fear or desire and surrender to the void.

Mahayana is more concerend with morality and some maintenance of heirarchy, except in the more specialized like Zen, which Achinz has mentioned.


Hinduism I don't remember the details of. It is fairly close to Buddhism, but Hinduism also involves politics (usually as an adjunct) and personified representations of the divine.


Anything by D.T. Suzuki or Alan Watts is a good place to start on Zen.

 

[Mescalhead]

Originally posted by Voynich
In Thervada Buddhism it is said that there isn't a permenant mind. If this were the case how would it be possible for someone to be reincarnated in a new body? What exactly is transfered into the new body?

Damn good question.

 

[Achinz]

When you do a bit of searching you find that reincarnation has a bearing on not only Hindusim and Buddhism but also historically on aspects of Christianity and Judaism. An interesting site of links is:

http://www.beauchamp.de/odp/odp.php...n_and_Spirituality/Reincarnation/Content.html

 

[Kshatriya]

Originally posted by Voynich
In Thervada Buddhism it is said that there isn't a permenant mind. If this were the case how would it be possible for someone to be reincarnated in a new body? What exactly is transfered into the new body?

Most Hindus and Buddhists believe in an atman, or soul, which is transferred.

Some Hindus/Buddhists follow a different belief, that it is not the atman that is reincarnated, but that everything is in a constant cycle of reincarnation. When a dead body is burned on the funeral pyre, it ‘reincarnates’ into smoke and ash, these ‘reincarnate’ into the wind and the earth, etc.

IMO, beliefs like these are much more scientific than in other religions, and that Hinduism and Buddhism are the most logical religions in the world.

 

[roadrunner23]

Vajrayana - Enlightnement by lightning bolt.
Tibetan buddhist slang for suicide: taking four (reincarnation as an animal)

 

[Achinz]

Originally posted by Voynich
In Thervada Buddhism it is said that there isn't a permenant mind. If this were the case how would it be possible for someone to be reincarnated in a new body? What exactly is transfered into the new body?

It's not the mind that transmigrates.Somewhat complex because although Buddhism does not acknowledge a soul as such, it nevertheless is possible to speak of a "karma of souls", karma being the cycle responsible for reincarnation.

So the karma of the deceased survives and becomes a kind of germ of consciousness in the womb of a mother.

 

[Hygro]

Originally posted by cgannon64
If the goal of reincarnation is to come back in the next life as a better person and keep on getting better until we reach Nirvana, how can we do this if we don't remember our past life? Do we become a better person subconciously?

Following my more Christian beliefs on the matter: we don't keep coming back until we reach Nirvana, and there is no heirarchy for how good a life you led last time in the sense that rich people deserve their wealth and the poor deserve their plight.

Consider this: part of your soul stays in heaven at all times, amongst whatever heaven is (God, angels, a world infintely greater than our own, maybe) doing whatever it is we do over there. I can't really tell you I know that. However, the part of our soul alive down here is to follow a life path more or less thought up before we were born. The ultimate purpose is to love. And I don't mean like your girlfriend and your mom. I mean in general. Wisdom and knowledge are tied into the love, so dont think of it as some kind of hippy fest

Different lives are set up to learn these lessons different ways. If you are born rich, how to you live a meaningful life through all the materialism? Born poor, how do you live life meaningfully when the materialism is lacking too much? What about mental retardation? I would guess it would be to learn these lessons through a very hard method for the demtermined soul (playing Diety in civ? )

The reason most of us don't remember our previous lives past early babyhood is because think of how convoluted it would be to try to learn a simple lesson with so much previous business to deal with. I mean, we don't carry grudges in heaven, but when we come back here, and if we remembered wrong doings to us 1000 years ago, couldn't our old mindset come back and demand revenge? That would be bad!

The part of us in heaven knows everything about ourselves, remembers it all, so its sorted out there, not here.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Theres only one soul. When we incarnate, a piece of that soul is installed in the meat puppet to function as its OS.

 

[Achinz]

@DP
That's worth some expansion

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Originally posted by Achinz
@DP
That's worth some expansion

Ok, I'll give it a shot. God is the universal soul. What we call 'our' souls are really part of god. Most religions are aware of this, in various convoluted ways, they speak of 'god within us'. The ancient Greeks spoke of the 'spark of the divine' in all people. So IMO, when our bodies die, our souls 'return' to the source, god. Reincarnation of the self is an illusion. When a new person is born, its soul is drawn from the same well as yours was. People who have memories of past lives arent recalling something that happened to 'them' previously, they are remembering something that happened to the world soul, and they are tapping into a comman database of experiences.

 

[Achinz]

@DP
I see that you see the question from basically a Christian perspective.

One of the advantages of the Buddhist view of reincarnation is a ready explanation for the lot and status of people born. Why are some born to happy, comfortable families in developed countries and others in the ghettos of Mumbai or the famine-ridden, war-torn areas of Africa. Bhuddists point the finger at karma.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Is it really from the Christian perspective? I basically believe that our individul selves are illusions, so therefore so is the reincarnation of the self. I believe in Dharma, but not in Karma.

 

[Achinz]

I basically believe that our individul selves are illusions...

I now see your point.

How would you explain the strength of the sense of "me" and all that "I feel and think"? Are all our creations, experiences and bonds with loved ones and other simply illusions?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Achniz, in this world, on this plane, for all intents and purposes, we are individuals. We carry our pieces of soul around and they become enriched by our experiences here. When the body dies, this enriched soul returns to the source and in turn enriches the source. This is why life, intelligence, slowly evolves and becomes more complex.

 

[Achinz]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead
Achniz, in this world, on this plane, for all intents and purposes, we are individuals. We carry our pieces of soul around and they become enriched by our experiences here.

Maybe its just a question of semantics but I don't find this positive statement of the self as individual compatible with the other satement of "I basically believe that our individul selves are illusions.."

I can see that the implication is that the individual self is a transcient entity which disappears on death.

When the body dies, this enriched soul returns to the source and in turn enriches the source. This is why life, intelligence, slowly evolves and becomes more complex.

Interestingly this is not an inapt description of the final stage of the cycle, that of the Buddhist (particularly Zen) Nirvana where the self disappears but becomes integral with the "Infinite".

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Originally posted by Achinz
Maybe its just a question of semantics but I don't find this positive statement of the self as individual compatible with the other satement of "I basically believe that our individul selves are illusions.."

I can see that the implication is that the individual self is a transcient entity which disappears on death.


Interestingly this is not an inapt description of the final stage of the cycle, that of the Buddhist (particularly Zen) Nirvana where the self disappears but becomes integral with the "Infinite".

The illusion is so deep, the we might as well really be individuals. We talk about AI, and how will we know when a computer is really self aware, whether it just appears to be self aware. Some say that if it behaves and interacts with us as if its self aware, then the question is irrelevant. The same can be applied to us. The illusion that we are individual selves is so deep, that we might as well be individuals. But we arent really. Its just a temporary illusion. The 'infinite' is the only reality.

BTW, I dont claim to know these things, and others who disagree are wrong. Its just a working hypothosis that makes sense to me.

 

[Voynich]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead
Ok, I'll give it a shot. God is the universal soul. What we call 'our' souls are really part of god. Most religions are aware of this, in various convoluted ways, they speak of 'god within us'. The ancient Greeks spoke of the 'spark of the divine' in all people. So IMO, when our bodies die, our souls 'return' to the source, god. Reincarnation of the self is an illusion. When a new person is born, its soul is drawn from the same well as yours was. People who have memories of past lives arent recalling something that happened to 'them' previously, they are remembering something that happened to the world soul, and they are tapping into a comman database of experiences.

This sounds somewhat like Sankara Hinduism. In that version of Hinduism everything thing is considered part of Brahman and reincarntion ceases after some type of enlightenment. It does, however, have a decidedly non-materialistic metaphysical position in that the physical world is seen as an illusion.

 

[Civrules]

I just watched a very interesting video on the net about a 4yr boy having nightmares about WWII. It says that he might be a pilot born again who was shot down by the Japanese over 60 years ago.

When the boy was asked things about the airplane, he knew everything, every single detail. He even said that the tires of the plane popped frequently. He even talked about others - even mentioned the name of the actual pilot.
His father was extremely skeptical from the beginning but now he is researching every detail about the events and the pilot who got shot. He is basically comparing the real event and what his son is saying about it

The video is about 15 minutes long and it is available as video only. There is not an article. I found it on my home SBC Yahoo! Page so I don’t think most of you can watch the video. it is really interesting though…

EDIT: I found the video on the ABC News site. Look at the right and click on "Born Again?"

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/video_index/video_index.html

 

[cgannon64]

Originally posted by Dumb pothead
and in turn enriches the source.

That's an interesting idea. Kind of like some philosophy I heard, that humans are nature's way of watching itself - the universe uses us as its eyes and ears.

(Well not that much like it, now that I think about it, but the same idea that we are tools/pieces of the universe, and compliment it.)

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

I doubt the existences of reincarnation, although if I was able to come back as another human, I would absolutely love for it to be true. Life is all I know, and I do know that I like life, so bring it on. And if I am brought into a crappy life? Well just bring me back again.