Questions About Specialists

[BadHorsie]

Ok, I don't really know a lot about specialists in cities. I generally leave the city to do it automatically.

1. What does a specialist require to be assigned?
2. How does the city generally decide to assign specialists when it is on auto?
3. How do I turn it off auto (if you can), and when I make manual changes, will the city ever 'over-write' my specialists when the city grows or the conditions change?
4. When I add a specialist, a tile gets taken away from the amount I am working, is that correct? So what's the advantage, and don't I lose the food and hammers from that tile?
5. Certain improvements or wonders say "Can turn 2 civilians into Artists" or whatever. Does that mean I lose 2 population by assigning those Artists? Can I not assign any Artists until I build that building then?
6. What are 'free' specialists?
7. Should I be assigning as many specialists as possible all the time, and what have I been losing by not doing so? When it's on auto, does the city assigna s many as possible?

I know that's a lot of questions, if someone could maybe answer them in a numbered order for me, so I can refer back to them.

Cheers.

 

[PMabey]

Ok, thats a lot of questions, i'll try my best:
1.It requires a building that can "turn X amount of citizens into specialists" OR using the caste system civic. e.g a library allows you to assign a maximum of 2 scientists
2.The city is not helpful at all in assigning specialists. It tends do do it at the stupidest and most untimely moments.
3. I dont know of a way to stop having specialists assigned automatically. If YOU assign one the computer will not get rid of it unless your city is starving and you need the extra food from wotking a regular tile. Remember if your city is size 10 then you have 10 population points. These can be used to work land tiles or assign specialists. So you may have 9 tiles being worked and one specialist assigned.
4.Yes thats correct. You lose the hammers and food from the tile and gain whatever the specialist does. You also get +3 Great Person Points which contribute towards the birth of a Great Person.
5.Certain wonders have the same ability as buildings as mentioned in 1. e.g Angkor Wat allows the assignment of 2 Priests. You decide when to assign them... unless the computer wants to be annoying and does it for you. You can just fire them anyway if it does that. You never lose population from assigning specialists.
6.Remember if your city is size 10 then you have 10 population points. These can be used to work land tiles or assign specialists. So you may have 9 tiles being worked and one specialist assigned. A free specialist doesnt require a population point so you can still work 10 land tiles and have 1 specialist assigned.
7.You can run one city with loads of food and loads of specialists assigned and build the national epic there. This is referred to as great person farm. How many specialists you should be assigning in other cities is entirely situational - you decide and dont think the computer knows best. e.g you may want to assign a priest specialist so that a great prophet will be born and you can construct a religious shrine.

OR you can run a specialist economy (completely different altogether - go see another thread)

 

[futurehermit]

1) Surplus food. A specialist doesn't generate any food, but still requires 2 food. Therefore, you need a tile with at least 4 food supporting the specialist in order to continue to grow as per usual.

2) I don't know, it's crap. Always assign them yourself imo.

3) I don't think you can, which is super annoying. Sometimes it seems to override decisions. Get in the habit of checking your cities often.

4) Yes, you don't get the benefit of the tile, but you get the benefit of the specialist. Each specialist give you certain things (e.g., a scientist gives you straight beakers, an engineer a mix of beakers and hammers). But the main thing a specialist gives you really is gpp (great person points). You run specialists with the goal of generating great people, which you use for different things (e.g., lightbulbing a tech or using a GS to make an academy in your capital, stuff like that).

5) The ability of a wonder to allow you to run specialists is basically that it gives you "slots" to work the specialists. This can be handy, especially when you don't/can't run caste system. Outside of caste system you are limited in terms of the amount of each specialist by the number of slots afforded to you by certain buildings. E.g., a library gives you two scientist slots, a market gives you two merchant slots. You can run up to two scientists or two merchants, but not more than that until you get new buildings/wonders/etc. that give you slots or you are able to adopt caste system.

6) Free specialists (e.g., 2 free scientists from the Great Library) are just that: free. You don't need to assign them, you don't need food to support them. They are just there, giving you their benefit: gpp and beakers/etc.

7) Since you are new to it, the best approach is to designate one city, which has an abundance of surplus food (floodplains, farmables, herdables, seafood), as your specialist city (called gp farm on these forums). Basically, work only surplus food tiles (including grassland farms as necessary, but start with 4+ food tiles) and run as many specialists as possible. Use caste system if you want a specific great person. Otherwise, just run what you can given the buildings that you have. Library gives you 2 sci, forge 1 eng, temple 1 priest, market 2 merchants, grocer 2 merchants, theatre 2 artists, holy shrine 3 priests, etc. There are more, but I won't list them all here.

Ok, I don't really know a lot about specialists in cities. I generally leave the city to do it automatically.

1. What does a specialist require to be assigned?
2. How does the city generally decide to assign specialists when it is on auto?
3. How do I turn it off auto (if you can), and when I make manual changes, will the city ever 'over-write' my specialists when the city grows or the conditions change?
4. When I add a specialist, a tile gets taken away from the amount I am working, is that correct? So what's the advantage, and don't I lose the food and hammers from that tile?
5. Certain improvements or wonders say "Can turn 2 civilians into Artists" or whatever. Does that mean I lose 2 population by assigning those Artists? Can I not assign any Artists until I build that building then?
6. What are 'free' specialists?
7. Should I be assigning as many specialists as possible all the time, and what have I been losing by not doing so? When it's on auto, does the city assigna s many as possible?

I know that's a lot of questions, if someone could maybe answer them in a numbered order for me, so I can refer back to them.

Cheers.

 

[BadHorsie]

Ok cool. Thanks, I sort of knew a lot of that but it was good to be sure, as opposed to guessing what my cities were doing. I normally just build lots of wonders in a particular city and that is my GP farm.

I will start work on my specialists now...

 

[duezeone]

sorry to interrupt, but at what point do you start pumping specialists vs. growing really fast? In other words, do you assign specialists when you are able to still grow at a decent rate and have a decent number of specialists or should you focus on getting your city to its max pop?

My early game strategy usually involves taking out at least one close opponent and having a city like this can really interrupt the pace of my warmonger style. Is this a lack of specializing my other cities? (eg; like production cities, commerce cities, and stuff like that) Or should I keep have a few production tiles early in the mix with the farms and change them later? (in order to have a more versatile city early on)

I just started playing again once I got warlords and I'm starting back on prince, so the city specialization and GPFarming is really new to me. Thanks

 

[PieceOfMind]

sorry to interrupt, but at what point do you start pumping specialists vs. growing really fast? In other words, do you assign specialists when you are able to still grow at a decent rate and have a decent number of specialists or should you focus on getting your city to its max pop?

This is the question I've been asking myself lately too. I've been using the SE (I always used to be a CE guy so I'm trying something new).

(btw SE = Specialist Economy, CE = Cottage Economy)

I think cities that have high surplus food (eg. more than 10) you can afford to start running specialists before you reach max pop. Another thing to wonder about is what exactly the max pop is. Especially if running Hereditary Rule and when the health cap is still really high. For example, is it really worth growing to size 16 before assigning a single specialist?

What I generally do is try to work all tiles that give at least 3 food (food resources and farmed grass tiles) first, and then decide whether to start assigning specialists or grow to work more tiles (eg. a gold or iron mine). There are exceptions of course. A city with 15 or so grass tiles I wouldn't grow to 15 before assigning specialists - I'd probably be using it for a lot of unit whipping or something instead.

 

[futurehermit]

Run specialists when you want to produce the gp or simply run specialists all the time in gpfarm city (growing to max population then stagnating, only whip when adding a key building). If you are running a specialist economy then run specialists when you are in a research phase and don't when you are in a production/whipping phase.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

sorry to interrupt, but at what point do you start pumping specialists vs. growing really fast? In other words, do you assign specialists when you are able to still grow at a decent rate and have a decent number of specialists or should you focus on getting your city to its max pop?

In a dedicated GP Farm, there is always one goal: getting your next Great Person as soon as possible.

This normally means that growth and infrastructure occur immediately after the GP is born. At other times, specialists take priority. Occassional emergencies ("oh crap, I need to draft units!") will occassionally take the city out of "dedicated GP Farm" status, but part of the point of specialization is to let other cities take care of those emergencies, so that the GP farm can concentrate on what it does best.

 

[BadHorsie]

I'm not sure I understand the great advantage to specialists. Should I be just making them in one city only for a GP farm? I couldn't see any great advantage in having 1 or maybe 2 specialists in a city til very late in the game. By working as many tiles as possible, the growth and production you get surely enables you to build more science or commerce-related buildings faster. Doesn't that out-weigh the benefits of the odd specialist?

 

[Winston Hughes]

I'm not sure I understand the great advantage to specialists. Should I be just making them in one city only for a GP farm? I couldn't see any great advantage in having 1 or maybe 2 specialists in a city til very late in the game. By working as many tiles as possible, the growth and production you get surely enables you to build more science or commerce-related buildings faster. Doesn't that out-weigh the benefits of the odd specialist?

There are several reasons why you might want to run a specialist or two in a city, even early in the game. But, as with most things, it's down to the situation in question.

The most obvious reason is GP generation; if you've yet to get a GP farm up and running, then you'll probably get your GPs out quicker by having two or three cities running a couple of specialists each. After the first few GPs the rate will slow to a crawl without farming for them, but up to that point it can really pay off.

If you're racing for a tech (either to beat the AI to it, or because you need it asap for some other reason), then scientists/merchants can outperform undeveloped cottages or coastal tiles. It's a trade off, because you'll stall the growth of the cottages and slow population growth. But if you need that tech NOW, then it can be worthwhile to take the short-term option. You might also transfer a citizen from a mine or forest to specialist duty, if research takes precedence over production at that point in the game.

There are also cases in which a particular kind of specialist can provide something that the city in question needs and can't easily get elsewhere (particularly if you've given a fast-growing city a heavy whipping, and don't want to whip the next building 'til the happiness is restored). The two examples I can think of are: artists for a border pop, or to fend off encroachment by enemy culture; engineers/priests (or even the odd citizen specialist) for the hammers in a low-production city.

 

[futurehermit]

In a CE game, you want ONE designated GPfarm city. Generating a lot of GP is such a huge advantage. There are many things you can do with them.

Prophets: Building shrines for any religions you found. Lightbulbing religious techs to found religions. Settle them for good $ and hammers.

Scientists: Lightbulbing tech towards liberalism (great). Founding taoism and unlocking pacificism (great). Academy in capital and other high science cities (great).

Artists: Best in culture victory. Settle them early for good culture/turn. Culture bomb late in 3 key cities. Also can found Islam and 2 of them can get you nationhood.

Engineers: Anyone want a free wonder? How about rushing the space elevator?

Merchants: Anyone want 2000-3000$? Also good for lightbulbing certain techs, such as constitution, replaceable parts, etc.

 

[val13]

Ok... question:

When you pull up the city screen and set the GP slider (+/-), THAT is when you lose your population points (2 per GP slot assigned). But, if you generate a GP, then SETTLE the GP in a city, does THAT eat 2 food points? Or, can you settle a GP for free, it is the generation assignment that eats the food?

 

[DarkFyre99]

Ok... question:

When you pull up the city screen and set the GP slider (+/-), THAT is when you lose your population points (2 per GP slot assigned). But, if you generate a GP, then SETTLE the GP in a city, does THAT eat 2 food points? Or, can you settle a GP for free, it is the generation assignment that eats the food?

Settled Great Person's don't eat any food. They are, in essence, free. Also, each Specialist eats two food, and is considered one population point.

I also noticed that nobody on this thread seems to know how to keep the automated Governor from assigning specialists. I seem to have a lot of luck with this strategy:

1. Turn on the Emphasize Food button. This causes the Governor to work all food producing tiles first. As long as there is tile producing one food to be worked, the Governor won't assign a specialist.
2. If the city needs Hammers, turn on the Emphasize Hammer Button. The Governor will then work as many Hammer tiles as possible, while still producing at least a four food surplus.
3. If the city needs commerce, turn on the Emphasize Commerce Button. It works just like the Hammer button.
4. If you turn on all three buttons, the Governor will try to balance all three resources, usually by working the tiles that produce all three first. Cottaged tiles seem to be considered to be Hammer producing tiles even when not towns or using Universal Suffrage civic. The Governor seems to want to maintain at least a three food surplus when all three are emphasized.
5. If you want to run specialists in this city, use the Force Specialist buttons (the + or - buttons on the specialist panel). The Governor will then divert a citizen from the least productive tile to be a specialist. Again, with the Emphasize Food button on, it will try to maintain at least a four food surplus, but all specialists are assigned by the Governor first, before any tiles are worked.
6. If you want to have Zero Population Growth, click the "ZPG" button. The Governor seems to halt excessive food production one turn away from growth... though I have seen a little (one) excess food seemingly going to waste. I think you're better off assigning specialists and turning off the Emphasize Food button if you want ZPG.

By using the Emphasize buttons, especially emphasize food, I have had a lot of luck trusting the Governor to assign citizens for me. They don't always make the best choices, but nine times out of ten they do, and they won't assign any specialists until they're working all the tiles in a city.

 

[VoiceOfUnreason]

When you pull up the city screen and set the GP slider (+/-), THAT is when you lose your population points (2 per GP slot assigned). But, if you generate a GP, then SETTLE the GP in a city, does THAT eat 2 food points?

No - super specialists feed themselves.

Your cities are required to feed the population (which may be specialists, citizens, angry citizens, or working the tiles). But you shouldn't be losing any pop points when you hire a specialist - in most cases, you are moving a citizen from a tile (which may include food yield) to the specialist pile (which does not have food yield) - your population remains the same.

 

[val13]

No - super specialists feed themselves.

Your cities are required to feed the population (which may be specialists, citizens, angry citizens, or working the tiles). But you shouldn't be losing any pop points when you hire a specialist - in most cases, you are moving a citizen from a tile (which may include food yield) to the specialist pile (which does not have food yield) - your population remains the same.

Ok... so... the food is lost if you add (+/-) a specialist to the slider generator, but can settle in a city for free, which just adds the benefit to that city.

Case in point (just so I understand):

I have a city and assign two engineer's to be produced. That eats 4 food. As the engineer's are produced, I can settle them in any city with zero penalty, adding +2 to production rate and +3 to GP generation rate.

How many engineer's I can assign to be produced depends on if I have a forge or wonder that gives more slot availability, or, I run the civic that allows for unlimited specialists (which I take to mean that unlimited specialist slots are available for generation).

 

[PieceOfMind]

Ok... so... the food is lost if you add (+/-) a specialist to the slider generator, but can settle in a city for free, which just adds the benefit to that city.

Case in point (just so I understand):

I have a city and assign two engineer's to be produced. That eats 4 food. As the engineer's are produced, I can settle them in any city with zero penalty, adding +2 to production rate and +3 to GP generation rate.

How many engineer's I can assign to be produced depends on if I have a forge or wonder that gives more slot availability, or, I run the civic that allows for unlimited specialists (which I take to mean that unlimited specialist slots are available for generation).

Sorry but you still have a few things confused.
The 2 engineers do eat 4 food. You can indeed settle them anywhere for the benefit of hammers. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but settled great engineer specialists don't provide more GP points.

A forge will let you assign one engineer. The caste system civic removes limits on the number of artists, scientists or priests. So no, you can still only run one engineer specialist. Note there is of course no limit on how many settled 'super' specialist engineers you can have. Other buildings that increase the number of allowed engineer specialists are the factory and power plants. There might be a wonder or something as well but I can't remember.
Note the bonuses provided by ordinary specialists are not the same as the corresponding super specialist. Eg. an ordinary engineer gives 2hammers and 3 GP points, whereas a settled great engineer gives something else - I think it's hammers and a few beakers... (I can't remember cos I never settle great engineers).